Benyi: 0:05

Hi, my name is Benny Johnson. As some of you know, I've been struggling with addiction. However, I decided to change my life and went into recovery. I started this podcast 90 Days Clean, and I want to take you along in my journey. What does lie ahead of me? Let me be frank. I do not know will I ever drink again? I do not know this is how Steroid redemption was born. It is my search for answer in the real term process of what is going to work for me. It is then my aspiration to help you figure out what is going to work for you. It is our journey together. Hello. Hello and welcome back to another episode of Stairway to Redemption. Uh, this week I have a recurrent guest. You might have heard her, um, Alex in the episode, the, so I forgot which number was, but check it out. She was in company of the second half of the Bridget. Um. We say hi to. Hi Bridget. Hi. Hi, Bridgette. Uh, well, Alex is back on the pod and this time we're gonna talk about her sobriety id, but also she's gonna gather us through the na beverage space, like the so worker space. Since Alex is the GM of a Spread Away, which is, um, a non-alcoholic bottle shop in, uh, New York, in Nolita. So yeah. Guys, I give you Alex. Alex, how you doing?

Alex: 1:58

Hey. Oh man, I'm, I'm really good. Thank you, Benny.

Benyi: 2:01

Good. So, uh, let's start with the state of the man dress. What's happening with you in the world after, especially after, uh, we, April. But how, um, oh my God. How was, uh, dry January for, yeah. Oh my, my God.

Alex: 2:17

It was a blur. Yeah, it was crazy. It was our biggest, uh, busiest and biggest. Mm-hmm. Dry January ever. Um, uh, spirited away. Usually I can tell how the rest of the country's doing with non a by the way, spirited Away is doing.'cause, just'cause we're in downtown New York City, we have a really diverse customer base. Um, we're busy and, and fairly well known. Mm-hmm. So yeah, we were like. 50% busier on New Year's Eve is our biggest sales day in the last five years.

Benyi: 2:46

Wow. New Year's Eve.

Alex: 2:48

Yeah.

Benyi: 2:48

Not even like the day after.

Alex: 2:51

No. Isn't that funny? Yeah. It was a lot of people who were like, can I get non-A champagne? Yeah. For the toast. Oh, and we were actually dead on New Year's Day. Really? I think everyone was still in regret phase.

Benyi: 3:05

That's very interesting. That's gonna tell us more about what the. The wave where the wave is going or where the culture is shifting to. Yes. Uh, but yeah, what, what else, what else is new with you?

Alex: 3:15

Yeah, what else? Um, so I mean, I think since last time I talked to you, I started a new job. Mm-hmm. I was always kind of doing sales of pet food in the background, but I quit that to do all non a all the time. So now I'm still general managing spirited a way. Mm-hmm. But I also sell. I represent a specific non-alcoholic spirit brand. Mm-hmm. They're from the uk. Okay. And they have a team over here, it's called Pen Tire. Okay. I've heard of that. I've definitely forced you to try it. Uh oh. We've got a couple cans. I'm, I'm like three bottles, uhhuh and, um, it's really nice. But I'm, it's really interesting'cause I'm, I work as both buyer and seller now, and I'm working every day. Approaching bars and restaurants around New York City to take on non-alcoholic adult beverages.

Benyi: 4:04

So, so you have like the doubled insight of like both ways Virus, you could say that. I

Alex: 4:08

also have double the trouble man. It's like, so I used to be an actor, right? I still am. And one of the reasons I stopped was'cause there's a lot of rejections and it wasn't without my sobriety figured out. I couldn't really handle it. Yeah. And uh, it's like that with the sale.

Benyi: 4:27

Okay.

Alex: 4:27

It's, uh, should I pause? No, no, no. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. New York City baby.

Benyi: 4:32

Yeah, New York City. We're outside by the way, so we're in

Alex: 4:34

beautiful Elizabeth Street Garden. I'm actually tripping out'cause I would never, it's crazy to me that I'm just like downtown New York City talking about sobriety in this beautiful setting with a friend. I would've never had like. Life beyond my wildest dreams for sure. Mm-hmm.

Benyi: 4:52

But

Alex: 4:52

anyway, um, yeah, it's, it's crazy'cause it's spirited away. Mm-hmm. Everybody comes in already curious.

Benyi: 4:59

Okay. Like

Alex: 4:59

people are kind of ready to at least learn and buy and ask questions. But when I walk into these people's bars and restaurants, a lot of times they're like, nah, get the fuck outta here. They're like, whatcha talking about? And it's like, I have to. It's a real exercise in control. Yeah. And there's lessons of sobriety every day.'cause it's like, okay, I'm gonna fight the battles. I can uhhuh keep myself straight by putting myself in situations where I'm set up for success. Mm-hmm. It's been really interesting. So. They're not as far along as I thought in the bars.

Benyi: 5:33

Okay. So, yeah. So definitely we're gonna circle back to, to, to that bit because I have a few questions. Yeah. But first I wanted to ask you, so you've been on a podcast before, but for those who never heard of you before, uh, could you, uh, recap as what's your story, how you sure. Ended up in recovery?

Alex: 5:50

Yeah, yeah. Um, I'll give the Cliff's Notes version, but basically I didn't really start drinking until. I had a couple drinks in high school and I think I definitely blacked out the first time I drank, but neither here nor there. Yeah, that was very normal. I, it was like not an option to not do that.

Benyi: 6:07

Mm-hmm.

Alex: 6:07

Um, but I didn't like drink on the weekends really consistently. I didn't think about it. And then I went to college, went to acting school. A lot of emotions, a lot of like emotional demand. And that was in 2011. When I graduated, I started drinking a lot, like every day after rehearsal. And the program was really rigorous, so worked really hard from like 10:00 AM to midnight. I also had a job on the side and I just loved alcohol and like the connection it gave me. And I loved saying yes. I loved being the one crazy bitch who would say yes to stuff, even if it wasn't good for me. And that kind of became my life after college, I kind of became a professional drinker. Mm-hmm. And I am really let that, I just like followed wherever the next thrill was. Um, I went to New York City but couldn't really hack it. It's just. It's hard when you spend all your rent money on alcohol. Yeah. It's hard to live here. Yeah, I know it. It's expensive.

Benyi: 7:08

The city is expensive and I was

Alex: 7:10

always, yeah. And I was under the impression that like, this was such an amazing city to have all your vices and like Yeah. It's actually, I mean it is, but it'll like eat you alive. It's actually a better city to be sober in'cause you can do all that stuff and not wanna kill yourself at the end. But anyway, I kind of bottomed out. I moved to Seattle in like 2016, pulled a geographic, um, I was still there. I was myself, so I couldn't outrun her. And, uh, when I started using like amphetamines really heavily, uh, namely meth. I knew that wasn't me. Um, I know we all say that at different times, but that was, that was really something I never thought I would be doing a lot. Yeah. And then I was, so that was weird. Mostly so I could drink longer, um, and more. And so I moved back home, got went to Utah, got sober, and after like 90 days, like all the promises started coming true.

Benyi: 8:10

Oh, good. Like,

Alex: 8:10

no joke, like, um, just all these opportunities. My head got so much clearer, um, and I had the opportunity to move back to New York City'cause of a job, an acting job, and a partner, and I thought I was just gonna stay for three months and see how it was. But I stuck with sobriety. It wasn't perfect at first. I went back to cocaine and I was like, I'll just do amphetamines and no alcohol. That'll be awesome. And I, man ended up Oh, so hilarious. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I was like, in AA meetings, yed outta my mind, just like I knew I needed to be there, but I couldn't fucking get it yet. Yeah. It was like, it's so crazy to look back on that. I, I got to a point where I was still living with this same person, Sam. Mm-hmm. And I was using Coke the same way I was using alcohol, and I was like, oh, I'm about to lie to him. I cannot. I cannot be with somebody who I'm lying to all the time. Like I just knew it wasn't gonna work. So I told him, I was like secretly using Coke. He was like, that's fucking crazy.'cause he's like a normal person. So he was like, whoa. Like it was really, you know, I had surrounded myself with people that wouldn't surprise for so long. And he was like, no, that's pretty fucking surprising. And um, got back to meetings, got a sponsor, got really serious. And I've, uh, been. Sober from alcohol and hard drugs for six years.

Benyi: 9:36

Six years. Congratulations. Thank you so much. Thank you. Especially in the city after coming back and stumbling one more time and then trying to figure out, and thank you for saying like, sober from alcohol and hard drugs. Yeah. Because, um, you, one of the few person I know who is Solberg. Yes. Right. So. Before we like, yeah, you can. Everyone's like,

Alex: 10:01

turn this off, throw it out the window. Who is this crazy girl?

Benyi: 10:06

But like, I wanted to know what was your mindset when you decided to try and smoke marijuana? Because,

Alex: 10:14

yeah, I.

Benyi: 10:15

You had it, correct me if I'm wrong, you had the, basically the same mindset. When did you have the same mindset when you decided to only to Coke and not alcohol to replay, were you thinking Right. Were were you looking for substitute? That's my question.

Alex: 10:30

Yeah. I think I wanted something that I could be like social and also that just like gave me. I, I, I needed like social energy, like I mm-hmm. I'm an extrovert, but I like, it takes a lot for me to like, get out Yeah. And get amped up to go be social and then I'm fine. But to be honest, like I only ever stopped smoking weed consciously for like a few weeks at the very beginning. Mm-hmm. And then I was like, so anxious and. I was alone in Utah. I was hiking every day. That was my therapy. And I was like, I wanna smoke weed and hike and it's gonna help me not drink. So I did it and I was like, I just always knew that that first part of the AA 12 steps and traditions, I was like, is my life unmanageable?

Benyi: 11:22

Yeah. And

Alex: 11:22

it never was. Okay. It never got unmanageable and um, it still hasn't. And now I, I kind of, you know, I'm not. Not to say that like medication makes you not sober or, yeah. Or that I think it's like modern medicine is incredible. My very bipolar family benefits a lot from modern medicine. I think I benefit a lot from like mindful weed consumption. Um, but yeah, I never really plan my, my mindset was always harm reduction.

Benyi: 11:50

Okay. Yeah, I believe in home production too. Uh, yeah. But yeah. So like how did you find out that like it was working for you?

Alex: 11:58

Yeah.

Benyi: 11:58

Like, did you, uh, try different doses or like, I don't know. How does that work? Oh, man.

Alex: 12:03

Yeah. You know, I'm, I've never been a very exacting or organized person. I was sort of like, that's luck. Yeah, man. I was just like, I, I wouldn't use it to like. I don't know. I didn't have a lot going on in early sobriety. Mm-hmm. Like, I, I didn't have a job. I was literally just in Utah. I was in this beautiful place, so I was like, I'll hike. And I had a dog, still have him. He's awesome. My family dog. Um, but I, I don't, I didn't really experiment with doses. I think. Man, I was just trying to make myself feel better and I, my, it was just no alcohol. Mm-hmm. No matter what, no alcohol. What else can I do? Obviously that also led me to cocaine. Once I realized that was off the fucking table, I was like, anything but these things.

Benyi: 12:57

Yeah.

Alex: 12:57

So I guess it was sort of a lot of, uh, bargaining.

Benyi: 13:00

Yeah.

Alex: 13:01

Kind of. Yeah. That ended up just like working out for me. Okay. And it still hasn't been a problem. I do think about my weed use, but I'm always checking in.

Benyi: 13:09

So like you, when you smoke, you basically smoke. What? Like daily, weekly? Do you get stoned or just to Oh man, calm, like your anxiety.

Alex: 13:17

I mean, I smoked like an hour ago. I could not tell. I could not, yeah. It doesn't, it doesn't affect me like that. Yeah. I, um, I, I. You. I use not an hour ago, it was probably like at lunchtime. Mm-hmm. I probably use weed, like I hit a vape pen like at a very low dose couple times a day. And then I smoke flour at night. Um. Or I put it in my drinks.'cause I'm, there's a lot of weed drinks now. Weed drinks.

Benyi: 13:44

Yeah.

Alex: 13:44

So I use like tinctures and stuff. I, I treat it like, I think normal people treat cocktails. Okay. Which is like, I'll have one here. Like, it's so weird. I feel like I, I'm a normal with it.

Benyi: 13:53

Mm-hmm.

Alex: 13:54

Which I've never had an experience of with anything else.

Benyi: 13:56

Oh, interesting. So like, you think it brings you like to a normal baseline of who you are supposed to be, right?

Alex: 14:02

I do. Yeah. I find it makes, and I've always been in service. I, I don't wanna promote it for anybody else. No. I'm not trying to convince people. Definitely. But for me. It makes me, yeah. Really, I love talking to people when I'm smoking or like have had a little THC. Mm-hmm. Like I'm in service industry. I'm constantly talking and like being interested. I also. It just makes New York City's crazy and vibrant and beautiful. Yeah. And I, uh, it kind of centers me in, in like a way that being said, like if I'm about to be on work calls all day, I don't smoke. If I have a big presentation or I'm about to meet people for the first time, I don't get high. Yeah. Like I, I, I know now and then that's another thing that's new for me is mm-hmm. Like not wanting to be fucked up all the time. Yeah. But I also, because of sobriety. I have this big full life now. Uhhuh like, you know how it is, you're like teaching, teaching now. Yeah. Like you can't, you can't just like get high or do drugs'cause there's like stuff you have to do.

Benyi: 14:57

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. No, yeah. You, you were definitely right on that. Um, like the following up questions I have, so Yeah. Um, how do you, um, what's your strengths or how do you react to the racist tones or like, you know, of like. Because you're part of a, you just mentioned it earlier, you have a sponsor and stuff Yeah, yeah. Of the old schooler of people like, you know, people in a, who are like not too fond of the Cali sober idea.

Alex: 15:23

Yeah. My sponsor and I have come a long way. She's, she's 74 Uhhuh. She's been sober as long as I've been alive. Okay. And longer, she's gonna have 40 years of stone Cold old school. Mm-hmm. 12 step sobriety, uh, in mid May.

Benyi: 15:38

Yes. Uh, 40 years of Yes. Stone cold sobriety. Thank you. Mm-hmm.

Alex: 15:42

I'm like a, uh, can't focus sometimes, so she, uh, they're like, stop smoking weed, Alex. Um, she and I, when I first asked her to be my sponsor, and I told her I was trying to quit Coke, and I had heard her talk in a meeting mm-hmm. Like six years ago. Mm-hmm. She had a story similar to mine and we, she started taking me through the steps and I was like, I need you to know that I use weed sometimes. Mm-hmm. And she was like, whoa, hold the phone. You can't be in AA and like doing the steps and using weed. Mm-hmm. You like can't do it. Mm-hmm. And so we kind of didn't see each other for a while. And then, but we kept in touch. Yeah. She, she still liked being my friend and she saw that I kept going to meetings and like kept, like, my life kept getting better and better. Like my business grew. Mm-hmm. My relationship grew, my life, my network, like everything just like got, I was like vibing and I, I talked to her pretty openly about. My weed use, and I think she could see that. I wasn't like, I'm not like trying to get, I sound so old stone out all the time. Um, I'm not trying to disconnect. Yeah. I'm always trying to connect. So she, she said that, and she's sort of opened up to the idea that there's a lot of different kinds sobriety. But that being said, I still see the value in. AA and how, like cutting it all out at the beginning. Mm-hmm. Because you just gotta know where the fuck you're at.

Benyi: 17:05

Yeah, exactly. Uh, but you know what's funny in the big book they even tell it that like, there are not doctors that if abstinent needs to money be managed with prescription drugs. Yes. And stuff, you know, from like psychiatrist, uh, any other kind of doctor that like, you know, they condo. I don't know. I'm gonna asking you, do you think there's kind of double standard that SSRIs, for example, for people who are sober, it's okay, but smoking weed is not like, you know?

Alex: 17:37

Yeah, I definitely know people that are like, I. I am so sober and then they pop like four Xanax. Yeah. Just to like get on the subway. Yeah. And I'm like, okay. Like that's fine if you're fine. Like I have no idea what you feel you are when you are not sober. Yeah, I'm sure it's fucking crazy too. Uhhuh. Um, but I do think, yeah, like weed gets a bad rap. I mean, I just saw it, and this is a whole other discussion, but basically. Dispensaries look like Apple stores now. Yeah. And there's half our population is in prison because of this drug. Yeah. So it's obviously a skewed perception across all of American culture. Yeah. But um, yeah, I think it's also like stoner culture needs to shift. And I think if more people like me who are like super high functioning, like very, for all intents and purposes, I'm pretty straight laced. I'm not like super controversial person like Yeah.

Benyi: 18:34

I just use, I couldn't even tell you heart. Like you all, like you smoke. Like, oh yeah. Like, yeah. Yeah. It's,

Alex: 18:39

it's not, I don't know. Yeah. It's

Benyi: 18:42

not like the ching and trunk old school. Yeah. It's stone like, you know, like red eye. That's not that. No, it's not like that

Alex: 18:49

anymore. It's not. It's like, I mean, yeah, it's, there are a lot of different strains and variations and you can get all into that stuff too and whatever. It doesn't matter. I don't even really care about that stuff. Yeah. I never have, even with my drinks, I don't, I just, uh. I only do stuff that feels good. Yeah. And, um, allows me to connect more.

Benyi: 19:08

Yeah. As long as, like you said, like it brings connection and not disconnect, like, you know, and like, you know, I commend you on that because like, I I see it works. It works for you, you know? Mm.

Alex: 19:18

Thanks. Yeah. Uh,

Benyi: 19:18

me personally, I was never a big sweet smoker beforehand.

Alex: 19:22

Yeah.

Benyi: 19:22

So I did, didn't find the interest of picking up something because like, I was like, why am I picking up this? Am I thinking of substitute? Like, you know. Once I was like, oh, if I'm doing this, I'm gonna try to substitute for something. Then I was, I was like, then this is not for me because I didn't need it in the first place. Right.

Alex: 19:44

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

Benyi: 19:46

yeah. But, um, yeah, like, uh, so yeah, let's, uh, go back to, uh, the first topic, the other topic. Oh, yeah. Which is the, any space, so, like you said, yeah. You were like, uh, interviewed? Uh, no. You were very busy in the month of, uh, January. Yeah. But also you were interviewed, but you are Tiffany. I was Oh, good morning mate. Oh, which one?

Alex: 20:07

CNN Morning show.

Benyi: 20:09

CN uh, Julian Moore was a, yeah, she came through. Oh my God.

Alex: 20:14

That was the best. Yeah. She

Benyi: 20:16

was in your storm.

Alex: 20:17

I cried after that. Yeah. Yeah. As a fellow redheaded actor.

Benyi: 20:22

No, but like now it's, it, I mean, it was real. But you are there in the space since and since the opening of test 2020. Gosh,

Alex: 20:30

no. Actually, uh, I didn't know about it until 2022.

Benyi: 20:34

Okay. So you were 2022 is still before like the wave became very popular.

Alex: 20:40

Totally. So, totally.

Benyi: 20:41

You were there at the beginning of, of, of things. Mm-hmm. You see the rise and the wave of like, suburb. Um, but um. Yeah, so like, what's your take? What's like, your take on the movement? Like, you know, like how do you see it, like course cons, like such a cool question. Mm-hmm.

Alex: 21:00

I see it as like the pendulum is definitely, it's like swinging extreme right now. Um, I think it's definitely gonna fall somewhere in the middle. By that, I mean there's all these like sober bars and super sober spaces opening. Yeah. But that is a little far from the actual, when we're talking in like economic capitalist view mm-hmm. Of what this non-alcoholic beverage movement is, it's, I don't think those places are gonna sustain in the long run.'cause most of our customers at Spirited Away still drink alcohol.

Benyi: 21:37

Okay.

Alex: 21:37

Most people. I think don't have alcohol use disorder. Mm-hmm.

Benyi: 21:42

It's

Alex: 21:42

like a small population of us that have this.

Benyi: 21:45

Mm-hmm.

Alex: 21:45

Or are addictive. So most people that are interested in this stuff just want variation and they don't al if it's, it's like me with meat. If there's an impossible burger on the menu, I'll probably order that.'cause I, I really like'em, but if it's not there, then I'll get a burger. Um, so I kind of. In the next few years, we're gonna see a lot of like low a BV options. Like people don't wanna get hammered and on a martini at lunch, or they want to, but they're not anymore. They're, they're doing, you know, uh, tea lunches and wellness meetings and low a BV wine, alcohol by volume for people that don't know, thank you for its food. Yeah, no problem. Drinkers sometimes don't. It's whatever's the strongest. Yeah. Um. I also think that there's gonna be a lot of these, like celebrity brands are probably gonna fall away. Mm-hmm. Like it seems like kind of a money grab. Yeah. To me. I mean, it's cool. I think it's important for celebrities to talk about this stuff, but I. I don't know. A lot of it, I'm just like, I, I have one in mind,

Benyi: 22:52

like Beer Bureau Barrow. Yeah. Tom Holland. Tom Holland. Yeah. I didn't try it yet, but the way, me neither, the way he was on like those talk shows promoting it. Yeah. Like there, there's a lot of marketing behind that brand. Totally.

Alex: 23:06

And then I just worry, like I kind of worry about their sobriety. Yeah. Like it's so tied into this like commercial thing and they have so many, I really think. It's not good to like get sober with like a million people watching you.

Benyi: 23:21

Yep. Uh, definitely. I'm so glad you approached that. Uh, you brought that up because my, one of my questions was like, so we saw on IGN social media, the popup of like, those, you know, many like. Suburb, like, uh, influencers that are popping up, I guess. Am I wrong? I don't know.

Alex: 23:43

You are kind of, yeah. But you're cool.

Benyi: 23:45

Yeah. But yeah. Now, and you're not

Alex: 23:48

a white woman, frankly.

Benyi: 23:51

Last time I checked, know, wait, I'm not, it was, uh, it was, it was, uh, Michael Che that had this, you know, uh, white woman called Gretchen, the, one of the snl. Skit. Yeah. Yeah, I was, yeah, that skit was hilarious. So good. Yeah. Yeah. One of the

Alex: 24:09

only good ones lately, honestly.

Benyi: 24:10

Yeah. But, uh, no, but yeah, like the resurgences, uh, offer those, um, Instagram profile. Yeah. Sober, sober ig like they call it sober. Curious. Yeah. And I'm gonna speak for myself, but you can tell, give me the opinion or your opinion. Evaluate. Um, I. I'm, I feel like there's dubious intention when those, I see those walk up like it's so curated of like, you know, great moment. I'm having fun, not drinking beautiful hiking. It's not like. It's almost as if sobriety became entirely their identity. That's all they are. Ah, right. Yes.

Alex: 24:53

That's huge.

Benyi: 24:54

And I'm like, no. Like Sobriety ex helped you be who you want to be. It uncover. Yeah. It helps you be who you want to be. Yeah. It's not just.

Alex: 25:03

And a lot of times it's a lot of the same stuff you were doing before. Just like less messed up. Yeah. Like it's not like a whole new thing. Yeah. Yeah. It's so weird. You're right. It's all, it's like very product driven. Mm-hmm. And I think for all of us listening or all of y'all listening and like early sobriety, like the first year or two honestly is not. Pretty. Yeah. It's prettier. Yeah. It's better. Mm-hmm. But it's like, I don't know, there's a lot of like mess and confusion and it's exciting and fun, but it's like all the same reasons that they tell you not to date anybody. Really? Yeah. It's like you're figuring it out. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, it's, it's like, it's so seductive.'cause it feels, I think, really cool to be like cheered on. Mm-hmm. From what I can see, I didn't start posting until I was a few years sober.'cause I wanted to make sure this shit was gonna stick. Yeah. I was like, I gotta, I can't backtrack on this. And now I don't even, I would never wanna drink again. Really. Um, but yeah, I don't know.

Benyi: 26:10

But

Alex: 26:10

yeah,

Benyi: 26:10

I like it because, you know, I've seen like, uh, some of them at the, at those like social events where they're like, oh yeah, an alcoholic, you know, social events. I. Uh, and I'm like, do you think also it might be driven by money, financial reason, wanting to make money out of sponsorships?

Alex: 26:29

Freestyle, yeah.

Benyi: 26:30

Mo being money. I think like the moment you want, a person wants to make money out of their sobriety, they're corrupting that. Like they, there's a dark spot. Like, you know, they, they're corrupting the, uh, their sobriety.

Alex: 26:42

Yeah. Well, because it's all about. Kind of handing it over to someone besides yourself. Money's pretty, like a lot about control.

Benyi: 26:52

Yeah.

Alex: 26:53

It's not really about surrender.

Benyi: 26:55

Mm-hmm.

Alex: 26:56

Especially influencing is all about managing what stuff looks like. Yeah. I, I, it's, it's, it creeps me out, frankly. And then these people. Go off and monetize by leading retreats.

Benyi: 27:11

Yeah,

Alex: 27:11

and like having groups. Groups are cool. Yeah. I have a group. I don't, I don't have any certification. Yeah. I'm having it in an hour come through, but I will not, I don't know. I won't charge you money for anything. Yeah, that's for sure.

Benyi: 27:23

That's, that's, that's very interesting. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, uh, I'm kind of not surprised, but feel like Vindicted, that like, you know, we shared up the same opinion on it. A hundred percent did sometime. I'm like, and it's hard in those spaces where people want to do good or they say that they do good, that you question their intention because like, you're like, oh, what kind of person? And then

Alex: 27:42

you're the grump. You're the bad guy. Yeah. Nah. And I've kind of, at first I was super into engaging with it. Mm-hmm. So I was like, what is this? When I first started it, spirited away,'cause we have a lot of crossover with these influencers, and then I got kind of burned by a few who didn't actually know how to have I. Conversations and like ex, everything was very emotional still. Mm-hmm. Felt very pre sobriety. And I was like, oh, you got too much attention. You got too many coins without doing all the work.

Benyi: 28:15

Yep.

Alex: 28:16

And here we are. So now I just kind of keep my space and like wash them like aliens. Um, I. They're one day, they're just gonna be quiet.

Benyi: 28:26

Yeah, but you still get a porch a lot though. So like how, like how you manage the flow of people. Okay, so now let's put your buyer hat on. Okay. Because there's so many It's a beret actually. It's a beret. It's stupid. Uh, okay. So let's put your bio beret on. Okay. And, um. So we have like all those brands that came in, you know, non-alcoholic brands, the one for the celebrities and stuff. Yes. You guys are very popular about bottle shop here. Yeah. Um, what are the do's and don't of a brand when you know they're supposed to approach you? Right. Yeah.

Alex: 29:03

Um, I would say like, don't co-opt another culture story. That's kind of weird to me. That ring. There have been a number of, um. White people led brands that are like, I don't know, they were really inspired by another culture, but they just sort of like, they were like, I love Sorel. And I'm like, that's like very Caribbean. Mm-hmm. Like, do you know the story? What's your connection? And the connection is just fandom. I'm like, do you need to make a drink? I come from an act, like a sort of theatrical background. Mm-hmm. I'm like, why are you, what is the purpose for telling this story?

Benyi: 29:44

Yeah. Because

Alex: 29:44

you are telling a story with your product.

Benyi: 29:46

Mm-hmm.

Alex: 29:46

And if you have to make up the story or kind of take someone else's, I just, it doesn't mean it's not a good product, but it makes me wonder. And then on the other side of that coin is coin. If the story is really good and there's like a cool connection that this person has, that makes a big difference to us because there are so many products now. And frankly, a lot of them are kind of similar.

Benyi: 30:06

Mm-hmm.

Alex: 30:07

So if you have like a cool perspective, that means a lot to, to people, consumers, and us.

Benyi: 30:13

Mm-hmm. I see. Huh. Interesting. Yeah. Um.

Alex: 30:19

But we also, we don't bring on celebrity brands unless they're like requested unfortunately, or unfortunately they are requested a lot'cause they have the money to market.

Benyi: 30:28

Yeah.

Alex: 30:28

So they kind of bring people in the door. But then a lot of times we redirect people to like, Hey, look at this cool local, small batch. Yeah. Version of that celebrity thing. And yeah, sometimes it's a hit.

Benyi: 30:40

Interesting. So now let's put the, uh, the seller. What's, that's still a barrier or No, the

Alex: 30:48

seller is like a baseball cap.

Benyi: 30:50

Okay. Baseball cap. Okay. Okay.

Alex: 30:53

You so

Benyi: 30:53

funny. Alright, so now you were talking earlier about the challenges of going to a bar to a space and they don't, they don't get quite the importance of having non-alcoholic options Yeah. On their menu. Uh, what's your approach? You show them the numbers who play this is like, the movement is totally how growing. That's it.

Alex: 31:16

Such a good question. Um, I'm still figuring out. It depends on the person. Mm-hmm. Sometimes money talks and you can be like, look, also this movement has been going on, um, at a much higher velocity to greater success in London, in like the uk it's actually way more far along. So a lot of times I can be like, Hey, look at these numbers from these well-known restaurants, or whatever. They sell a hell of a lot of this. That helps. I also usually tell people it's not taking away from their alcohol business, it's just adding to their general business.'cause people just sit and drink longer. It's not like they just don't have stuff.'cause there's fewer alcoholic drinks if people, a couple times people have been like, we don't do non alk. And they say that to my face and my company has told me and. This should be true for most people if they say that they don't get it, and there's a million other people in this city who do get it, and I should just move on. Yeah. But I'm a sober, stubborn little bitch. And so if someone has the nerve to say, oh, we don't do non alk.

Benyi: 32:21

Yeah. Like,

Alex: 32:22

I kind of double down and I'm like, okay. And I'm like shaken. And I, I just, it really, it hurts me. It hurts me because I don't feel seen and I love. When like people come into the store and feel seen. I just remember the first time I walked in and I was like, oh my God, I can have everything that I thought I could have in New York City and I don't need to drink. I, I know it sounds maybe stupid, but that's how I felt. Yeah. I just felt like I could have it all back.

Benyi: 32:50

Mm-hmm.

Alex: 32:51

Everything that drinks symbolize, right? Like the ritual, the connection, the party, the relief, the celebration. Like I could get it all back. It's so weird. But so I try to say that to these dumb people.

Benyi: 33:06

No. Yeah. You know what, they're gonna turn around when they're gonna start losing money. And that's, that's kind of sad. Like you say, money controls. Yeah. And then, uh, if, if this is what it takes to, for them to get it Yeah. And eventually change their mind on what this movement is.

Alex: 33:22

Yeah. Why not? Yeah. Right. You have to learn some hard knocks just like everybody. Yeah. Um.

Benyi: 33:28

Earlier you said, uh, we said together, I guess one of us said that, you know, sobriety helps you go through your life. Your life should not be sobriety. So like, for you, what's a well balanced life in sobriety? Mm-hmm. So what is that you do that, um, that mean, you know, maintain you sober? Sober?

Alex: 33:49

Yeah. Um, I always have a lot of stuff going on. Mm-hmm. Um, but. I, I try to think of things in terms of like pie slices. So I always make sure I have at least like five slices to my pie. So if one slice goes bad, I got the other slices to lean on. Yeah. So I always try to have something creative going on. Mm-hmm. It doesn't mean I had to be like picked or audition it, like I'll make it. All. There are so many cool people I have in my life now that will help me.

Benyi: 34:18

Wait, you make your own movies?

Alex: 34:20

Uh, yeah. Okay. I have a production company. We, we had a movie. Yeah. It's in film festivals right now. Yo. Yeah. I didn't know that. Oh yeah. It's really cool show. I'll send you the movie. It's called Epinephrine. It's a short film. Okay. My friend Crosby wrote, uh, it's like experimental horror. It was really hard. We had to raise like$50,000 it took forever. Uh, but we did it and I was really proud of it. I also have like a big dedication to, uh, my health and wellness. I said that I really like feeling good. Mm-hmm. Like, I mean it, like all the money I used to spend on alcohol, I spend on like, massages, facials, sauna. Yes, yes. I don't have any kids. Yes, yes. This is, I am my own child, so Yes, yes, yes. I do a lot of that, which like brings me great joy. Um, I get outside a lot. Mm-hmm.

Benyi: 35:05

I like, I'm

Alex: 35:05

always going hiking and I have sober. I, I'm always trying to hang out with, um, different people. And I think the biggest joy of sobriety has been making adult friendships.

Benyi: 35:15

Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah, it's great. It's

Alex: 35:17

so hard. Yeah. But like, sobriety makes it so much easier.

Benyi: 35:21

Mm-hmm. And, uh, you went to the steps, right? Yeah. Like, yeah. Cool. So like, oh yeah. That, that idea at the end of service, like, you know. Yeah. Yeah. So what's your idea of service when you, you are out there? Yeah.

Alex: 35:34

Um, I definitely always. Offer, like I'm very open about. Mm-hmm. My sobriety, I'm not an influencer, but I'm always, I will always direct people to meetings that helped me in the city. Um, I do sober Sally's, which is a meeting about once a month at Spirited Away. Yeah.

Benyi: 35:51

That we are about to go to in a few minutes. Yeah.

Alex: 35:53

Yeah. Benny's been coming for a while. Yeah. We used to do it on Zoom during Covid, but it's more sober Curious Spectrum. There's no program, we just talk about sobriety openly. Mm-hmm. And, and difficulties in celebrations within it. Um, and I really feel like I, I do sort of consider my work at Spirited Away, like, um. Sort of like drunk person's karma. Like I, I just, I, there are a lot of people who come in on the edge of something and it's like showing them that there's options and that they can like, still have a big, fun life in the city and be sober. It feels really, um, feels like service to me.

Benyi: 36:32

That's great. Like, uh, speaking of spirit, uh, are you spiritual?

Alex: 36:37

Ah. Yeah, I would say I'm very spiritual.

Benyi: 36:39

Yeah. I mean, in order to be sober, I believe, I'm a believer that you have to be spiritually fit. Like religious is one thing, but spiritually fit. Like having that concept of a higher power. Yeah. Like, yeah. Like, you know. Do you remember when, Hmm. When like you got in touch with your higher power? Like you're like I, because I. I think that it's hard to describe a higher power because the moment you describe it, you put limitation on what the higher power is. Yes, yes. That's right. So that's why it's so confusing for people when you say, I believe my higher power, you know? Yeah. Um, I call mind God. I believe in God. Yeah. So like, but there are, there are moments like, do, do you remember moments of like. Certain DPT that was like so profound. Like there's no way this is random. Oh,

Alex: 37:28

man. Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, just like those things I talked about in early sobriety, like, uh, this, I quit drinking and then 30 days late I thought I was, I had burned every bridge I ever had and like. A director out of nowhere hit me up and was like, do you wanna be in this off-Broadway play? Mm-hmm. Like, I, I don't know if that's God, but that was like, that was awesome. That was enough for me to start considering that maybe my actions and the universe Yeah. And my participation in my life were like connected. Um, but early on, I just remember I didn't feel super connected to anything. And I was mad at Catholicism, which was how I was raised. I. Um, so God was sort of annoying to me, but I would go in those rooms Yeah. And feel better. Mm-hmm. So I knew that like. I am so angry at people all the time, but I actually think it's'cause I like love, I love people. Mm. Interesting. Oh, that makes me upset. I think I just get, you know, it's like how, um, you're the most sensitive to people's behavior that reminds you of yours. Yes. I feel like, I feel like on a God level, that's how I am with humanity. Mm-hmm. Like I'm so upset with us so often. Yeah. Because when we're good, we are so good. And I love like group therapy. I just like love groups being honest together. Yes. Yes. I feel like that's, that, that is the solution. Every time my like Normie fiance has a problem, I'm like, I bet there's a group for that. We should go talk about that in a group. It's great.'cause immediately you don't feel alone. Yeah. Yeah. And that's God. Mm-hmm. I think, but it's hard for me to think of an exact moment. Do you have an exact moment?

Benyi: 39:19

Do you have a I need to think about it. I know I do like, but it's, huh. I need to think about it for a second. Yeah. But I know, I feel it. You know, me too. Like Yeah.

Alex: 39:29

I climbed a couple mountains in early sobriety too. Yeah. Like in the first six months and I had never been able to go outside without alcohol in my bag and getting to like the top of a hard hike with just a water bottle and my dog. Yeah. That also felt profound. Yeah.

Benyi: 39:47

That I, I believe that. So. Last series of questions before we, we close this up. Um, so how you'll guide somebody who, who is in early sobriety or trying to get sober and, you know, try to figure out, so we talk about like making sobriety your life is not the answer you need to find your high spirit. But I remember one time we, we had a discussion and he told me like, you're not the huge fan of quickly.

Alex: 40:20

Oh yeah. So like, I'm not, so

Benyi: 40:23

like, how, who do you listen to? Where do you find your inspiration? Like, yeah. Yeah. Why are you not fan of qui, by the way, qui is quitting literature. So any literature that's like helped you quit. Yeah. Basically alcohol. Yeah. There's,

Alex: 40:37

there's great ones I've heard, uh, that's tons of books of sober curious, uh, sober ish. Uh, yeah, there's a million, I think. I'm just like weird. I don't like any content that feels too specific. Like, oh, okay, I got it. I like stuff that can be applied very generally, like, um, I. What's the other reading you do all the time? Stoicism? Yes. Yeah. I love that. Like stoicism can be applied to like a million things. Okay. Quit lit. Just it feels sort of trendy to me. Oh, like maybe too. Yeah. I can't, I should probably just read it. I'm, you know, I don't know. I also just don't like people telling me what to do. Yeah. They don't have to.

Benyi: 41:20

I read, I read a few. And some of them are like, duh. Some of them are like moments. Oh, okay. Totally man, I didn't think about this. You know, like, yeah,

Alex: 41:29

I listen to a fair amount of podcasts.

Benyi: 41:31

Yeah, that's good.

Alex: 41:32

I listen to a lot of meetings on YouTube. Mm-hmm. Old school meetings. Um, I always try to find people with more and different sobriety than me. Oh, that's very different. That's that I never heard of. I collect people like that. I've got every age, 80 seventies, 60, 50, 40, 30. Yeah. 20. And I often try to get them in the same room. Mm. Because, and if I know sober people, I'm like, you're sober and you're sober. And I tell them, I out them right away to each other. Uh, if I, of course I know them well enough to know that that won't upset them. Yeah. Yeah. I like that. I like, just like that, that, and then as in terms of advice, I try not to give advice. Okay. Unless people ask it. That's great.

Benyi: 42:18

Mm-hmm.

Alex: 42:19

And then, you know, I also always try to, I think maybe I used to try to help people, but I realized like the, you know, people ask for help often, that's only. That's very early in their journey when they're actually gonna start changing. Yeah. So I try to protect myself now and really only engage with people who like are really interested. Do

Benyi: 42:42

you have

Alex: 42:43

like spons? Do you ever have sponsees? I don't have sponsees, but I have friends who have asked me like, can I message you about sobriety? I'm really trying not to drink right now. Kind of stuff like that.

Benyi: 42:54

Mm-hmm.

Alex: 42:55

And I'll often like be their person, but they're, you know, I'm friends with a lot of people who aa scared off. Um, but I love ai, so I try to kind of be the bridge.

Benyi: 43:04

Yeah. What do you think? What were the limitations? I don't know how AA is in the city. Since I live in Long Island. I went to a, I went to only one meeting in the city. It was like, I. Different.

Alex: 43:15

I mean, which one did you go to?

Benyi: 43:16

Uh, Sunday night. It was Upper East, upper West Side Sunday night. Okay. In the base church basement. I forgot the name of it. I used to

Alex: 43:25

go to a bunch of Upper West Side, but yeah, I don't remember the names. I mean, the thing about New York City is, I think LA is like this two, if you can think of the group type, it's probably there. There's like trans theater, men's aa, there's like. Retired, like Jewish banker, aa, like there's so many subsets. Yeah. Kind of depends on the neighborhood, but I really think if. But a lot of them just went to like the first one they found

Benyi: 43:53

and then, yeah,

Alex: 43:54

it's full of, I mean, if you're like a young woman and you go to a room full of 50-year-old dudes who are in recovery, they're gonna, yeah. Yeah. It's just gonna be weird. Yeah. Like it's, you're not gonna feel like you're in the right spot. Representation is very

Benyi: 44:05

important. Very important. Yeah. I remember like the first home I used to go to, which is good room, I was recommended for people who are like early, you know, in sobriety because. They have a lot of people. The meeting is always quiet. It's quite full. Yeah. It's daily, so it's great. You have a lot of people there. That's cool. They're very like, but like there was an aspect of the thing that I didn't like was like. The old timers were sitting in the phone like mafia Dawns. Yeah. That you had to go shake the hands off. Oh, you don't even know why. Like, you know, like the, the question is like, how much time you have right away. Like, I'm like, you know, the, the guy doesn't even ask me for my name. Right? He

Alex: 44:46

won't even remember me. Like, come on,

Benyi: 44:48

come on. Like, that's, that, it was like, time was like the essential currency and you could tell like, you know, so. I stopped going to that group. I found my people too in another group that I, I think was more. Crosstalk is allowed. Oh yeah. And, uh, you know, still be civil. Yeah. Civil. Which crosstalk in the, A group is like usually a no no. Yeah. People get,

Alex: 45:10

yeah, they don't like it.

Benyi: 45:11

Yeah, they don't like it. But, um, yeah, I found my people, but yeah, I, I guess this is what it is. Once people are scared off of one group, it's hard for them to find there

Alex: 45:21

because you're already in such a vulnerable place and you like barely. Personally, I could relate.'cause it's like I'm mustering up everything I have. To get out and get help and then I get there and it's like, I don't know, either not what I expected or just I feel even more weird. Like I don't have the strength for that at the time. Yeah. So I recommend people do a lot of like online. I'm like listening. Just try to hear themselves somewhere first. Alright. Alright.

Benyi: 45:53

Alright. So that was the last

Alex: 45:54

question.

Benyi: 45:55

Whoa, we done it? Yeah. Alex for being a guest on the podcast. Thank you guys for listening, and I will see you in a few weeks. Bye guys.