Benyi 0:05

Hi, my name is Benny Johnson. As some of you know, I've been struggling with addiction. However, I decided to change my life and went into recovery. I started this podcast 90 days clean and I want to take you along in my journey. What does lie ahead of me? Let me be frank. I do not know. Will I ever drink again? I do not know. This is how Stairway to Redemption was born. It is my search for answer in a real time process of what is going to work for me. It is then my aspiration to help you figure out what is going to work for you. It is our journey together. Hello, hello, and welcome back to another episode of Stairway to Redemption. This week, I have a person that I have a lot of admiration for on the podcast. He's part of the recovery community I'm part of. Um, I think he's the embodiment of service when it comes to our 12 step program and what it is like to put others first. So guys, I give you Rosario. Rosario, how are you doing?

Rosario 1:35

Oh, thank you, Benny. Thank you so much for the opportunity to share my experience and my hope, uh, with you, with you and your podcast. I am, uh, extremely grateful today. I am in a grateful state of mind.

Benyi 1:51

Nice.

Rosario 1:52

Thank you.

Benyi 1:53

Speaking of state of mind, first question, state of the mind address. Uh, so what's going on in your life lately that you can share with us?

Rosario 2:01

Well, Benny, I have to be totally honest with you. Um, I used to live, uh, for myself. It was always about me, what I could do for me, you know, always thinking of self. Uh, today, my state of mind is what can I do for another, what can I do for another sick and suffering alcoholic, not only sick and suffering alcoholics, but people in my community, uh, people that I'm surrounded by, and people that are just You know, just ordinary people in my path.

Benyi 2:34

That's awesome. That's a, I mean, we're going to talk about it. We're going to expand on it, but man, you, you do a lot. But, uh, before I ask you the questions regarding service, do you mind sharing with us your story? How did you end up in the rooms?

Rosario 2:48

Well, Benny, you know, there's so many, uh, different, uh, aspects of my story. Um, you know, I, uh, I come from a family who are all alcoholics. Uh, it's, it's a disease that runs, uh, in my family. Um, my mom was an alcoholic, my dad, a rageaholic and an alcoholic, five siblings, all of us addicted to alcohol. And, uh, everything under the sun. Um, I'll give you the, the quick and the short of the story. Um,

Benyi 3:20

please, as much as you want,

Rosario 3:22

you know, I don't like to talk too much about, you know, um, the drinking and, and, and the drugs that I use. Um, but for myself, you know, uh, I came in in 1992. Um, I came in. With a gift of desperation. Um, I nearly burned down the apartment that me and my, my younger son were living in, he was, uh, at the time he was about two years old, uh, and I was using some other chemicals, you know, that, forgive me. Uh, I was using, um, you know, alcohol was always, um, was old, was always part of my. Uh, story, except when I pick up a drink, it leads me to a whole, whole other dimension of abuse to myself and to other people. So, the first time that I came into Alcoholics Anonymous, You know, I came in with a gift of desperation. My younger brother, Stefano, which, uh, he don't mind if I use his name. Um, his anonymity is, you know, shot when, when, when he used to do the things that he used to do, he knew that everybody knew that anyway. So, uh, my younger brother was already in Alcoholics Anonymous for about five years. My younger sister, like I said, it was a family disease. My youngest sister, she was also in Alcoholics Anonymous. So when I kept doing what I was doing, they always used to tell me, you know, Rosario, there's a better way to live, man. You don't have to live this way any longer. You know, um, uh, my life has changed as a result of coming into Alcoholics Anonymous. Um, you know, we love you. We care about you and we don't want to see you kill yourself, you know? And you think I listened to that? No, absolutely not. You know, it touched me maybe for a minute. You know, I thought about it. I might've felt it for a second, but I had no idea. I had no concept of this disease of alcoholism. So, you know, I came in, I went to rehab. I, like I said, I was with my son in an apartment. Uh, my first wife was, she was also alcoholic and addicted to other things. And, you know, after we got pregnant with the, with my beautiful son, uh, she decided that, You know, she didn't want to be a mother when she decided to go out and do whatever she wanted to do and not be accountable or responsible for the birth of our son, even though I was drinking and doing all sorts of other things, I still love my son and cared about him enough that I stayed with my boy. You know, I wanted to take care of him. I wanted to be the best father I could be, but I had no idea how to do it. And no, I had no idea how to be a father. You know, it's not like you go get a manual and it says, Oh, this is how you can be a good father. You know, I wish there was such a book, but there's not. So the night of the gift of desperation for me when something like this, I had my own business. I was sitting in a seat in my office and you know, I was on a bender drinking, doing all kinds of things. And I fell asleep. I fell asleep with a cigarette in my mouth and when the cigarette left my mouth, entered a trash can and something woke me up. I wasn't me. It's something woke me up, whether it was the spirit of God or something. I'm not quite sure. And I cannot explain it. Something opened my eyes. I opened my eyes. The apartment was engulfed in flames and wow, I, I, um, I was beside myself, but the first thing I thought of doing was going to get my son out of the, out of his bedroom, he was asleep, thank God, by the grace of God, he didn't, he didn't understand exactly what was going on. I picked him up, brought him outside, made a phone call, made one phone call to the fire department. The next phone call was to my brother. And I said, I'm ready. I'm finally ready to take that plunge and go to a rehab. I went to the first rehab in 1993. It was at Good Samaritan Hospital in Nyack, New York, and I'll never forget the day my father drove me there with my beautiful son,

Benyi 8:33

you

Rosario 8:33

know, Jesse, he drove me there and, um, and I stayed. I did the things they told me to do and I stayed for a long time and just to fast forward quick. I stayed sober, I started going to meetings, I started doing all the things they suggested that I do. However, I did not do the work. I didn't get a sponsor, I didn't, I didn't start doing the work, I didn't get By the work

Benyi 9:01

you mean the steps? I mean the

Rosario 9:02

steps, I didn't, I didn't practice any of these steps. I wasn't willing to do any of it. I just thought that if I could stop drinking, that I would be all right. Be okay. And I did that for 17 years, bro. Oh, stayed dry for 17 years. Did not have a spiritual experience. The thought of drinking and doing the other things that I was doing was still lingering in the back of my mind. I got addicted to money, to business. I became a workaholic and that occupied my time. So, and that's the way it went for a while. That's the way it went for a while. So it wasn't until April 27th, 2022, that I had that spiritual experience where the obsession and the compulsion was lifted from me and something happens. As a spiritual experience that allowed me now to get a sponsor that was in the big book, who was reading our big book. And he told me Rosario all our answers. are in the first 164 pages of the Big Book. And he said to me, you know, if you want to change the person that you used to be, this is the way to do it. And we're going to start working these steps on a daily basis. So, and many other things happened, Benny, before that, before that spiritual experience. And I'll, I'll share it very quickly. I, I, uh, a disease, a disease came over my whole body. Started drinking again, started doing a lot of drugs, taking everything under the sun to get out of myself. And this disease came over my entire body, except my face from the neck down. It was a skin disease. that nobody understood what it was. I went to over a hundred different doctors. I went, I ended up going to one of the top dermatologists in the country. And they did have, they had no idea, they had no idea what this skin disease was. So what they told me was, this happens at a certain age, you know, and you're gonna have it for the rest of your life. And I said, I said to myself, there is no way. That this is going to happen and stay for me for the rest of my life. I will kill myself if I've got to live with this disease for the rest of my life. And what happened before I went to rehab for the second and God willing for the last time was that I cried out to God. I cried out to God, please, please help me. I don't know why this is happening. I have no idea why this is happening for me, but I realized that. And this might sound crazy, but I realized that not God, the God of my understanding did not do it to me, but he allowed it to happen for me. There's a huge difference. And when I understood that I cried out to God and I said, please help me. I can't live this way anymore. Benny. I had entered seven psychiatric units before I came into. Alcoholics Anonymous 7. I couldn't sleep. I couldn't eat. I couldn't put on clothes. I couldn't shower for two and a half years. I was a prisoner in my basement. The only time I left my basement was to go to a doctor. That told me, we can't help you.

Benyi 13:58

There's

Rosario 13:58

nothing we could do for you. We have no idea what's causing this. Excuse me. After every doctor that I went to was not able to understand what was going on for me. I, like I said, I was crying out to God, God, please help me. Please help me. I'll do anything. I'll do anything. Please help me help me to understand what's going on for my body. And very quick. It started to work. I was praying with all my heart, with all my being. I didn't want to live this way anymore. And I didn't really want to kill myself. I had three children. I have family. And the last thing I wanted is for my kids to say, wow, why'd my father give up on life, you know? So, and I'm getting emotional

Benyi 14:59

now,

Rosario 14:59

you know, cause, um, it brings back that memory of when, of when this happened, you know? So as a result of crying out to a God of my understanding, um, I made a decision, uh, it was April, uh, 27, 2022 that I would go to rehab. And, um, I caught, I made a phone call very quickly to South Oaks. I ended up in South Oaks hospital for 28 days in that rehabilitation center. I was ready to do whatever it took, man. There was nothing that would stop me from doing for doing what God wanted me to do. Not only to help myself, but to help another person that were getting into service, my first sponsor was, was a young man that came in to speak. In South Oaks every Sunday. And he told me, listen, if you want to stay sober, when you get out of the rehab, the first thing you should, you, you, you must see suggestions is one thing, and that might work for some people, but for this alcoholic, I needed to hear something stronger than that. So what he said to me was Ariel, if you want to stay sober, these are the things we must. He must do in order to stay sober. So he told me that he was a, uh, a greeter at a meeting in Baldwin. He told me I'm there every Saturday. If you really serious about staying sober and changing your life, come see me every Saturday at that meeting. Well, Benny, that's what I did. I came out, I had a meeting planned the first day I left the rehab. Uh, cause they said, if you don't make a meeting the first day you get out of rehab. The chances are pretty good that you're going to end up picking up. So I ended up going to the first meeting that I made. Then my sponsor, this, this fellow that came in said, okay, now after you have 90 days, You're going to go back and speak at South Oaks.

Benyi 17:21

Yeah.

Rosario 17:21

I said, wow, you want me, wait, I said, Wendell, you want me to go back and speak at South Oaks after 90 days? What can I possibly say to those people at South Oaks? And he said, you're going to share, you're going to share your story. You're going to share your experience, your strength, and your hope with all those other sick and suffering alcoholics. In that rehab and that's exactly what I did and it drew me right into service and now no coincidence that your topic is so when When I when I went back to south oaks and I shared my story with all those people in that place I got all lit up. I was like, wow This is why we do the service that we do we go back And speak when we come out of a rehab because it was done for me that fella that asked me You To go back and I asked him to be my sponsor. He did it for me. He came in and did service. So I caught service very young on right after my three months, I jumped. He threw me into service. I didn't say, Oh, I would love to do so. He threw me back into service. And ever since that day, I have not stopped doing service for alcoholics. Anonymous. I love Alcoholics Anonymous. I love the God that gave me a brand new life. And that's for me, that's my God. I speak of God as my understanding. You know, in our third and our eleventh step, it's underlined very clearly in red. God as we understood him. Yeah. On the old shades, these are new shades that we're looking at, but on the old shades, it's underlined on the third and the eleventh step, God as we understood him. Not as Rosario understands him,

Benyi 19:19

but

Rosario 19:19

as each and every person understands their higher power and whatever they choose to call their higher power. I choose to call my higher power God. And as I realized that. This is working for me, my friend, Benny. I just continue to do service, man. I have commitments. I got, I got home groups. I'm not going to say how many, cause I'm not, it's not about bragging. It's not a, this is not about a bragging thing. This is about God has me doing these things service, you know? So, I mean, what more could I tell you, Betty? I mean, I love, I love alcohol. God brought me to AA and AA brought me to God, you know? And the first 164 pages of our big book are designed, it's designed for a new way of living. I had no understanding how to live my life. The way I lived my life was that I would, uh, drink, I would do other things. I was a criminal. I would steal from people. I'd hurt people. Did I really want to hurt the people? Did I really want to hurt myself? No. But I didn't know any better. I had no idea how to live any different way. I just thought that was the way it was supposed to be. You follow? So I'm grateful, man. I am extremely grateful for a brand new life for Alcoholics Anonymous and for the God of my understanding.

Benyi 20:57

All right, man. You, I love this story. Like, Oh my God. Like it's, uh, I get, I think I understand why now you're doing so much, like, you know, I definitely have a glimpse of it and, you know, you talk about the idea of service and like you, that you don't want to brag and stuff. And like, now I see why it's important for you to do service. But I think you, you, you maybe intentionally or not intentionally touching something by saying not about praguing, like, like what's, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but from what I understood is like, when you do service, your intention must be pure and then also must be self seeking. Yeah. So do you want to expand on that?

Rosario 21:50

Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I do service for free and for fun.

Benyi 21:55

Yeah.

Rosario 21:55

I, I don't expect anything in return from anyone. You know, I don't expect anything without expectations. What I do when I, when I do service. You know, for Alcoholics Anonymous, you know, I literally ask God where he wants me to be, where is it that you want me to be? And through our 11 step prayer and meditation, you know, to do God's will. I asked for God's will in my life. You know, I'm going to tell you real quickly when, when he wakes me up in the morning, the first thing I'll say to, to my God is thank you. Thank you for giving me another day. And before that first negative thought comes into my mind, I say, help, help me help me because I need a lot of help. And then I asked for his will to be done in my life. What is it? That you want me to do. And you know, they say, be careful what you pray for, because with that prayer, when I asked God, what is it that you want me to do today for you to serve you and to sell, serve other people in Alcoholics Anonymous, he shows me what to do, he, he directs me, he'll direct me, he'll direct me to go here, to go there, do service here, and that's the way the guard of my understanding works. So. As far as bragging, it's not bragging. What it is is that I believe that I am a servant, a humble servant doing God's work, and that's truly what I believe. I don't do it. With any expectations. I don't do it to say, Oh, look how good was that? Oh, what a good guy. No, no, because I am not a good guy. I am not a good guy of my own device. I am not a good guy, you know? So, um, I love to do service, man. I have many home groups. I do a lot of commitments. I do speaking commitments wherever, wherever I can go. And I can be to help another sick and suffering alcoholic like myself, Benny, you know, and that's it in a nutshell. You know, the last paragraph of one 64, you know, is key

Benyi 24:20

in

Rosario 24:20

our big book is key to everything. Abandon yourself to God, trust God, clean house, help others. You know, my sponsor told, it showed me that, he says, this is the, this is the, this is the program right here. This is the program, trust God, clean house and help others, man. And that's the way I live today, Benny, you know, without anything in return, without any expectations for free. No,

Benyi 24:53

I can definitely see that because like, you know, speaker of commitment and speaking, you're speaking to me right now. Uh, today we're like celebrating one of our brother's anniversary. You were like the, um, the chair of that meeting. I mean, you do a lot, you do a lot, but, um, I have a question for you. Is, are there moments where, how do you protect yourself like your, uh, your peace, your sanity when you are so open to others? Like, you know, like there might come moments where maybe doing so much service might be taxing on you. Do you have moments where you're like, okay, I need to retreat myself? How's on me time so I can recharge and help others some more.

Rosario 25:43

That's a, that's a great question, Benny. And, uh, there's a lot of truth to that question. Um, I found myself, you know, uh, attempting to do beyond. You know, beyond what, what, what I find, you know, to do, but that's, that's gonna, that comes with balance, you know, I do have that time that I spend in prayer and meditation, you know, that's where my time with my higher power comes in, you know, so in the morning, like I said. In the morning, I do this power hour thing, you know, I'm up at 4am every morning, buddy, every morning, you know, and like I said, the first thing I do is thank him and then help me. And then, you know, I asked for clear directions. So, how do I get those directions, Benny? You know, you know, you know, 11 steps. Yeah. Sort through prayer and meditation, improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for the knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out. Now, that's, that's where I spend my, my time in prayer and meditation, you know, asking God, please show me, show me what it is that you want me to do today, you know? And I spend those early morning hours in that prayer and meditation, and that's where it, it helps me. Now, I've had to cut back on certain things. Uh, commitments, I have to literally look at the ones that, and it, it's hard to say which ones are more important than the other, but they're all, they're all important. Yeah. How do you do that? Yeah. Every single one of them is important. But I just ask God, I, I ask God, please direct me, which, which, which commitment will you have me in? Which one, you know, do I, do I step back from, and which ones do you want me to continue to do?

Benyi 27:54

Yeah.

Rosario 27:54

You know, and uh, and that's, and that's how that works for me, you know, so yes, it's important to have balance. Yeah. It's important to have me and, and God time, so that I can understand that Rosario, You're not the savior of the world, bro.

Benyi 28:11

Oh, yeah. You're not gonna

Rosario 28:12

save the world, only, only God can do that. But sometimes I get wrapped up in that, Vinny, and thank you for asking that question. It's extremely important because, you know, I could also get wrapped up in that, you know, the ego, that ego could come in too. And the ego could be like, Oh, Rosario, look at what you're doing. Look at all the great things you do. And look at all the people you're helping. I'm not doing that.

Benyi 28:40

Yeah.

Rosario 28:41

I'm not doing that on my own device. Like I said before. I'm not this great guy. I'm not a great guy. I'm a, I'm an alcoholic. I'm a drug addict and I was a criminal. No, I'm being sick. I was a criminal, man. I stole from people. I stole from people, man. Uh, you know, and I'm, I'm not ashamed to say it because I no longer do those things, you know, Benny.

Benyi 29:10

Oh, that's true. But like, so yeah, if I get it right. Like it has all to do with setting yourself up right in the morning, you know, from what meditation to your prayer before going helping others. Um, another thing though, since you do so much, you help so many, you know, you deal with people and you deal with sick people. How do you, how do you set your boundaries? You know, when, because, It's unavoidable, but some people are going to abuse your kindness and, you know, push your limits. So like, how, how do you set, like, walk me through, like, uh, what your boundaries are when you say, you know, when to say no to somebody.

Rosario 29:58

That's a very, that's a great question, Benny, you know, and, uh, our book talks about, You know, when, when the student is ready, the teacher will teach,

Benyi 30:10

you

Rosario 30:10

know, and I can only do so much for someone who wants to know about this program and the things that we need to do to stay sober and also to stay spiritually fit. Right. So for me, And, and you, you really nailed it when you just said, how do you stop people from mistaking your kindness for weakness? Cause that's happened to Benny. That happens all the time. If I allow it to happen, see, I have to set that boundary, you know, in the beginning, you know, if it's somebody brand new, they're just coming around, they're just coming out of rehab. I will do anything, anything to help them up to a certain point. If they're not willing, then if they're not willing to get honest, they're not willing to get honest and they're not willing to do whatever it takes to stay sober. and to change the person that they brought into this program, then at some point I have to let them go. I've got to say, you know, I love you. I'm going to pray for you. But if you're not willing to do the work, then there's nothing I can do for you. There's nothing. And I have to just pray for that person.

Benyi 31:25

I

Rosario 31:26

pray that You know, they would become honest, willing, right. In order to, um, in order to continue to do the things we need to do to recover from alcoholism. So yes, those boundaries are important. And also I've had sponsees where, you know, I got them to a certain point. As a matter of fact, most of the sponsees. And it's not funny, but it's a, it's, it's a, it's a constant and it's always to this point when we get to the fourth step, most people, when they start making their inventory list and they see something they don't like, that's usually when they'll go

Benyi 32:16

back

Rosario 32:16

out,

Benyi 32:17

they'll go

Rosario 32:18

back out. They might not go back out immediately, but sooner or later, unless they're willing to look at the fourth step, they dare moral inventory and honest moral inventory, look at themselves, look at the people they've heard, look at their resentments, their sex conducts, and all the things that we do in our fourth step, if we don't, if you're not willing to do that. Then there's nothing more I could do for you.

Benyi 32:45

Yeah.

Rosario 32:45

There's nothing more I could do for that person except pray for that

Benyi 32:48

person.

Rosario 32:49

But I have to move on to somebody else. Okay. Who's willing to do that? You follow? Make sense?

Benyi 32:55

Indeed does.

Rosario 32:56

Good.

Benyi 32:56

Thank you. Like Yeah, it does. It does. Because you know, I've, I've finished my step work. I haven't had the chance to, to get a sponsor because, um, my concern is. You know, I'm not, I'm not talking about finding the perfect sponsor or anything, but like, it's just, I believe, you know, I believe that my higher power going to put somebody on my path. You know, some orders like go out there to find somebody. I don't think that's, that's been the cards for me, but because sometimes I found myself, I believe in people's energy, you know, and It's probably a default of mine, but there are times when I see people and I'm like, I can feel that person is not ready by the way they behave and by the way they, you know, they They sing the same song and they expect you to dance on it every single time and you who is actually out there a lot How do you feel about those like that? Like have you ever had like you say like, you know, we are boundaries you you cannot help them but I Have you ever had people who try to come back to you, but something deep down inside you tells you that, man, I don't think this guy is still ready.

Rosario 34:23

Well, again, Benny, great questions. Every question that you ask is a great question. Sometimes, uh, and I love what you talked about. You know, a sponsor and some people, you know, we'll just pick any, any sponsor just for the sake of saying they have a sponsor. I'm just going to touch on that for me. Yeah, go ahead. Um, I, I also agree with what you said wholeheartedly that God, your higher power will, will, will present. A sponsor for you? A

Benyi 34:53

Sponsee.

Rosario 34:54

Oh, sponsee. Yeah. Forgive me. Yeah, yeah. Forgive me. I finish. Yeah. A sponsee. Yeah. For yourself and that that will happen. What happens for me with Sponsees is that I find myself like, I'll give you an example.

Benyi 35:08

Mm-Hmm.

Rosario 35:09

Last night I was at a meeting and a friend of mine lost his brother just on Thursday night. Mm-Hmm. to this disease. And I knew his brother from a rehab where I have a commitment at every Wednesday. And the point I'm making is this, that after that meeting, I had a chance to share, um, just about at the end of the meeting. And then, and then a young guy comes up to me, he had one day. One day and he came up to me, he says, Rosario, do you remember me? I said, yeah. So no, I don't really remember. I said, refresh my memory. He says, yo, you came in to speak at Creedmoor, the psychiatric unit. And he says, yo, would you be my sponsor? Wow. I didn't go seeking him, but he, he came, he came to me, you know? And that's, that's God. See, that's God, that's

Benyi 36:17

God

Rosario 36:17

doing that. You see, it's nothing that I did. Yes. Did I go and speak at the psychiatric unit? Mm-Hmm? At Creedmore? Yeah. Yes. And I love that place. Oh my god. You love the psychiatric there? Oh yeah, man. And And I told you I was in seven psychiatric units and I remember the guy said to me, yo, oh, be careful what you say. They might lock the door behind you. Yeah. You might never come out of the psychiatric unit. So, and he was just kidding. The greatest gift is that when God shows up and this young, and he, he said, I, I recognize your voice when I shared, he says, I recognize your voice and the things that you were sharing. And he came up to me and he asked me to be his sponsor. I really wasn't looking for any more sponsors at the moment, you know, I have a few and they're a handful, you know, like I was a handful, but you know what, if somebody is going to ask me to sponsor them, I'm not going to turn them away as long as they're willing to do the work and get busy. You know, because for me, it's not just about picking. Putting down the drink if that was all that I needed to do. I would have done that a long time ago, man, you know, but it's so much more about putting down the drink. So, you know, uh, the answer to your question is that I don't go seeking responses, but if they, if God presents them to me, the chances are pretty good that I will say yes. However, there are going to be boundaries and limitations to that. Yeah. And if response see that. You know, walked away because they didn't wanna do the work. If they come back to me like, I believe that was the question you asked. It's good question.

Benyi 38:09

Yeah.

Rosario 38:10

What will I do if they come back after a while? If they went back out and they come back, I'll say, you know what? Maybe you and I are not a fit.

Benyi 38:19

Yeah.

Rosario 38:20

Maybe I could be your temporary sponsor until you find. Somebody that's a fit for you. Maybe what I say to you, you don't like.

Benyi 38:28

Yeah.

Rosario 38:28

Maybe we're not a fit. Maybe I'm not the sponsor for you.

Benyi 38:31

Yeah.

Rosario 38:32

So I give them that ability then to make up their own mind, to choose a sponsor that, that's a fit for them. So I hope that answered that question better.

Benyi 38:43

No, yeah, it does. It definitely does. And, um, you touched that subject of death. Uh, sorry for your loss, uh, last Thursday. But, you know, death is part of, like, um, I hate when they say that death is part of recovery or whatever. But there's another saying that I like even less is like you need to step over the bodies and stuff. So what's your relation? What's your view on death in the, um, in the recovery world? Because you know, since you do a lot of service, I bet you that you have seen a lot of people. Oh man. You have been to your share of funerals. So how do you, um, how do you deal with it? How do you process it?

Rosario 39:28

Oh, Benny, again, man, you ask, you ask extremely amazing questions cause that's, that's also an important question because. You know, I could give up on God. I could say, well, why, why did you take my friend?

Benyi 39:42

You

Rosario 39:42

know, why did you kill? Why did they not that he did it? Why did you allow that to happen? You know, and it's not God that does that. It's humans. We're humans. We're human beings, right? So I will, and I'm going to share this, uh, in my second year. Uh, in recovery, which is, I'm only doing two and a half years. Yeah. My second year I lost now it's one, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 10 beautiful people to this disease, 10 in just my, my second half of my second year. That's a lot.

Benyi 40:17

Yeah.

Rosario 40:18

That's a lot of people. So I say to myself, Oh my God, why is this happening? And it comes back to the same thing I've been sharing with you in order to stay sober. I've got to do certain things and you know what I want to I want to share. Um, and I i'm gonna have to look for it. Yeah, go ahead But there's nine spiritual principles that my sponsor literally Shared with me when I first Uh came around and here they are. I found them. So the thought nine things we need to do Uh, and he, he says, I, we must do for me. It's a must remember I was saying must. So here's the nine things. Number one is to always remember your sober day. Mine is April 27, 2022. Always remember and say you're sober day, right? The second is a sponsor. The third is a home group. Find yourself a home group. where that's close to your home that you could, in the event you don't have a car, the weather's bad, in the event of that, you can get to the home group within walking distance, if possible, right? The fourth one is a commitment. Take a commitment at that home group. Make the coffee. Help set up. Be a greeter. Whatever it is that you can do with service, You know, do it because taking a commitment in your home group is extremely important, right? The fifth thing the spiritual principle is make regular meetings on a daily basis if you can Some people cannot make a meeting every day and that's understandable But do the best you can to make a meeting on a daily basis the sixth is daily prayer. Whatever the God of your understanding is, will pray, pray, pray that God or your higher power will guide you in every single day in the best way that your power, the higher power sees fit. Not the way, Rosario sees them, right? So, six, daily prayer. Seven, is daily inventory. On a daily inventory, on a day to day basis, I have to look at my behavior. I gotta look at, was I honest today? Was I dishonest? Did I hurt anybody? Did I cheat someone? Was I mean? Was I kind? Was I loving? Was I caring? Daily inventory. It's a must for me. It's a must. And then number eight is work all 12 steps with a sponsor on it and apply them to my life on a daily basis, on a daily basis. I have to look at these steps where I can apply them to my life on a daily basis, you know, and then the ninth spiritual principle is to sponsor others. To show them, show them the way, show them these things and explain to them exactly how it works.

Benyi 43:29

Yeah.

Rosario 43:30

You know,

Benyi 43:31

I hope

Rosario 43:31

that was helpful.

Benyi 43:32

Oh, no, definitely. Oh, it was more than a hopeful. Yeah. And like, I can, you know, it's hard to believe that like in just two years you are where you are at. Right. Because. And that's a miracle of this program. He says, like, things come to us sometimes slowly, sometimes quickly. Right? And so, like, it's fair to say that you have changed. I mean, you have changed a lot, right? And you have evolved. How is it like dealing with people around you who don't? Change because not everybody, you know, is in a program, but let's say like you have still friends or people you have like feelings for, you know, attached to who are the same, but you are being a different person.

Rosario 44:20

Yeah. Uh, Benny, you know, now I realize why you have this podcast. You are very insightful to the questions that you ask. So I do, I do appreciate you, man. You know, um, How do I deal with the people around me that are not in program? You know, um, that's sometimes that's not easy, but you know, I have changed for, let's touch on that for a second. Uh, there has been a complete transformation, a transformation in my being, I want to say my being, that my state of being is not the way that I used to be. My state of being is completely shifted 180 degrees from the things that I used to think about to the things that I think about today. So yes, there has been a complete transformation. I am not. The same person that I used to be by the grace of God. And the way I deal with people that don't have a recovery program in their life is that I do the best that I can do. It's good. We got to laugh out of that because that's what it is. You know, I, by the grace of God and to the best of my ability, you know, I do the best that I can do to deal with the people that don't have a recovery program in their life. And how do I do that? By being the best version of me that I can be. They don't have to have a program in their life if they choose not to. It's their choice. See, I'm in the belief that I will not be able to choose what's good for you and good for your life. The choice is always going to be mine or the other person's or yours, Benny. I don't get to choose. Your higher power. I don't get to choose what you're going to do with your life. My sponsor tells me was Ariel. I will never ever tell you how to live, but I will be here ready for you when you decide to live your life. You know, so I don't tell people what to do. That's not the way it works. If I start telling people what to do, they're going to be like, yo, man, don't tell me what to do. Who the heck are you that you're going to tell me what to do and how to live my life now, Benny, I, I have done that. I'm going to tell you, I have done that, Benny. And you know what, it's gotten me. A lot of

Benyi 47:01

pain,

Rosario 47:02

pain, and then people don't want to have anything to do with me any longer. So we talk about in this program, it's a program of attraction rather than promotion. So I just keep doing the things that I do. And eventually they're either going to be attracted to it or they're just going to say, you know what? I don't want anything to do with this guy. I don't like him anymore. And if that, if that's what they choose to do, That's their choice and it's their loss. Not my loss because I know who I am today and I know what I do today. And I don't do it because I am Rosario, the great I am, you know what I mean? Cause there's only one man, only one power and I'm not it.

Benyi 47:48

No. Yeah. I mean, yo, this is, yeah, I love this conversation with you because every time And sir, like you send me like a more like, you know, a segue. And here's the next segway, like, among those people that are not in the program or stuff, like, there are people that, you know, you probably heard, or people who are like, still have resentment toward you, and You know, I imagine that now that you shifted, you're getting better. Like they said, you think you have Osario the great and stuff. They might be tempted of reminding you of what you did or who you were. Do you get haunted sometime by the past that you did? Like, you know, like, or when you see somebody that you like heart, like you're like, does it, I'm going to speak for myself when I remember when I was fresh out of rehab, but early in my recovery. I was plagued by remorse because now my mind was clear of the drugs. Like things were like, you know, maybe I listened to a song or I watch a movie, it would remind me of something that I did to somebody. And, you know, and sometimes ways of things like that happen. Does that happen to you too?

Rosario 49:01

Uh, well, Benny, that's where you, again, man, great, great. That's where, uh, our ninth step comes into it. Right. So our ninth step. Right. Make a direct bends to such people wherever possible, except where to do so with injured them or others. So if I'm working my step, if I'm doing my step work and I've done all my steps up until eight and nine, and I believe four and five, And eight and nine are crucial. Yeah. It's crucial to recovery, right? So when I, when I look at all the people I've hurt, I make the list and to the best of my ability, again, I got to go to the best of my ability because I'm a human being. I make the list. I've made amends to as many people as I can possibly make to at this point in my recovery. Are there more people? Absolutely. You know, am I going to come across those people? Eventually. Today I'll, I know how to deal with that. There's principles that show me exactly what to do. So when somebody says to me, yo, do you remember what you did to me back in 1992? You know, and I'm like, Oh, forgive me, forgive me. You know, I might not remember exactly what it was, but the first thing I'll say is I apologize and forgive me.

Benyi 50:26

Mm hmm.

Rosario 50:27

You know, forgive me for whatever I did. If I hurt you in any way, emotionally, physically, spiritually, financially. And if I hurt them financially, now it's time to make a financial restitution to them. It talks about that in our book. Right now. Oh, you heard me. You burned me for 3, 000.

Benyi 50:48

Yeah.

Rosario 50:48

Right. What do I do now? Okay. You know what? If I have the money, I pay it off. If I don't, I ask him for a payment plan. Could I pay you off? And you know what I find, Benny? Most of the people that I've done that with, they usually end up saying, forget it. I'm so glad that you're doing better. Your life has changed. Just forget it. Forget it. Thank you. Thank you for apologizing. Thank you for making an amends to me, you know, you don't have to be, um, in the rooms of recovery to understand an amends.

Benyi 51:23

Yeah.

Rosario 51:24

People understand amends. People understand that if you apologize for something that you've done and, but, but, you know, amends, while we're talking about amends, Benny, amends is not just saying, I apologize, forgive me. There's more to it than that. I have to make a living amends every day. Amends to me, nine step amends is about change. I have to change the person that I used to be. And by God, with God's help, I've changed the person that I used to be to the best of my ability. I don't, I don't hurt people today. I don't cheat people

Benyi 52:04

today.

Rosario 52:04

I treat them kind, loving, caring, understanding. So it's a very good question. If I bump into somebody along the way later on, I will do my very best to make an amends to that individual. You follow, Benny?

Benyi 52:21

Yeah, I follow. Yeah. Alright, so. We're about to finish, but I want to, I want your opinion on that. And the next question, you might not like that question because you say you would like every single one. I remember. Okay. So here we go. So, you know, uh, we part of the same, um, of the same group here and. I raise an issue with the group that like, um, so I'm bothered by people coming regularly late and especially missing the speaker because I think that's disrespectful and our group as a group conscious that like, Um, the meeting doesn't end until everybody get the opportunity to share. My grievance was that the people who show up late, I'm not talking about five minutes late. I'm talking about after the speaker late, uh, share at the end to give the opportunity of the people who are there had a chance to listen, to share first, right? Because, um, I'm a human being. It bothers me to see somebody who misses a speaker and decides to talk first, right? And, you know, when I made that suggestion to the group, you were one of the ones who opposed that idea. Who was like, nah, like, you know, like, uh, there should be, you basically was thinking otherwise. Like, do you want to expand on that? Like, you know,

Rosario 53:58

absolutely. And again, I'm going to say, it's a, it's a great question. Ah, man. I mean, are you going to be bad at me? It's a great question. And I, and I believe that I have the answer that was presented to me, um, through, through an understanding that I have now, I do agree with the point you're making that it is. Um, you know, it is a little disrespectful to not hear the speaker share, um, their qualification. However, what, what came to my mind is this, that what, what about that person? Remember where we are, we're on the beach, right? We're on the beach. So what about the person that, What if they had to park a mile and a half away and now they had to walk to the beach in order to get there on time and they're late? What about that person? What I get is we as a group, we have to consider. That maybe something happens why they're late. Now, there are people who are habitually late. We're going to sit, let's just state the facts. There are you, you and I both know that, right? Correct. So those people that are, are habitually late, I understand. Maybe they're, you know, they're not, they're not able to get there on time or for whatever reason that happens for them. But however, what about the other people that maybe their baby was sick?

Benyi 55:40

Yeah,

Rosario 55:41

maybe they needed to tend after their baby for an extra 15 minutes before they left to get to the meeting. And that person needs to share quickly. Oh my God, my baby was sick, you know, and, uh, You know, when I was going through this turmoil, now, what do we do with that person? She's got to wait until the end of the meeting to share until everybody else has an opportunity to share. Now that could be correct. But the thing is this, it's not just Rosario's opinion or my vote. That's why we bring it to a group conscious and to the business meeting where everybody will have an opportunity to either vote on that. Or vote it down. Now, do I agree with the fact that if the person is late that You know, and what are we supposed to do? We're going to ask each person, well, what was your situation? Why, why are you late? Yeah. That would start a whole other controversy, right? So, Fannie, it's a great question and I understand. I do understand. And I don't have any animosity against you or anybody else for bringing this up. I don't, I don't, I'm not angry about it, I'm not resentful about it, I don't have any doubt that you're coming from a great place inside of yourself. That you know what, maybe the person that's late shouldn't share until everybody else has an opportunity to share that was there all the time. Now again, it's not going to be my decision. It's not going to be my decision alone. It's going to be brought to a group, conscious, to a motion, right?

Benyi 57:24

That's

Rosario 57:25

the way it works, right? It's going to be brought to a group, conscious, and to a vote. The motion will be placed, and then we'll bring it to a vote. And then whoever chooses to vote on that motion will vote. Whoever chooses not to, they won't.

Benyi 57:41

Yeah.

Rosario 57:42

And if it's approved and it goes through? Then that's the way it will be. So be it. And I believe this, I believe if that's the way God wants it to be, if that's the way, you know, that the, the, the, the, the, the universe. You know, wants to be, cause some people have a, a problem with hearing the word God. If it's the way the universe wants it to be, right, then, then it'll be. Then it will be. And if not, it won't. Alright. And there's nothing in my power that could change that.

Benyi 58:15

Yeah.

Rosario 58:16

Right, Benny?

Benyi 58:16

Right, right, right. All right. So yeah, that was my last question. So here we finish with you. Uh, you know, the floor is yours. Like, do you have a message for the audience? How would you like this to end?

Rosario 58:31

Well, my message is that it doesn't end. I mean, not, not this, not this conversation between you and I, but I pray that it continues that everything that we shared together today, Benny, you and I, that people might, it might help and inspire another person to get involved, to start doing the step work

Benyi 58:56

and

Rosario 58:57

find a sponsor that has working knowledge of the 12 and 12. And the big book that will show them a way, a new way of life, a new way of being, you know, find yourself a higher power, something greater than yourself than ourselves, you know, that could direct us, give us a clear direction. How that high power wants us to live our life. You know, it's not, it's not up to me. It's not up to you, Benny. It's up to each and each, every individual person to make the choice, whether they want to continue on this journey or not. Oh, but I find this and I'll end with this. My sponsor, one of my sponsors, because I do have many, one of my sponsors says this to me and it's true, Rosario, the secret is in the love and the service of Alcoholics Anonymous. To be of ultimate service to God and to other sick and suffering alcoholics in and out of the room. And that's, that's my mantra. That's what I live by. And that's what I'll continue to do until my last breath on this planet. Thank you, Benny. Thank you, brother. Thank you. Rosario.

Benyi 1:00:12

I cannot wait to release this one. All right, guys, that was it. And I will see you in a couple of weeks.