Special Episode: 1 Year Sober Anniversary

Benyi: 0:00

All right, guys. Uh, good morning. And uh, sorry for like, you know, uh, the delay of being late, but this is our first time doing it live. Um, but yeah, um, as usual, I'm joined by the usual suspects, uh, Katie and Rich. Uh, thank you. So today is a special, we try to do live, you know, like Q& A for my first year anniversary of being sober. And yeah, it was what, March 4th, today was March 10th. So yeah, um, Hopefully people are going to ask questions. We have, uh, topics that we can go over. But first thing first, as usual, the state of the mind address. So, how are you doing, Katie?

Kate: 0:46

I'm doing good. I'm running late. And, um, no, I'm doing good. Actually. I'm just telling you what's before I am starting a program through Queensbury from Queensborough community college, um, to do my SERPA CRPA peer advocate program. It's actually free. I I'm signing up for my exam for my KSAC and I am applying to grad school. Um, I'm in the process of doing it for like my MSW. I really want to go to Columbia. And just go into debt forever, but I might as well go to debt forever. I'm getting an Ivy league school, right? Like, well, why not? Um, we'll see what happens. Um, and I have a lot of ideas. I'm doing my own little, I'm starting to kind of chart my pathway through recovery. Maybe other people can follow it. And I do it. It's very big. But anyways, that's me. My son's awesome. Sorry. I always forget to mention him. I love my son. He's awesome.

Benyi: 1:51

All right. Thanks. Um, Rich.

Rich: 1:54

So here we are, we got off on the wrong foot or whatever, but, uh, there's the maintenance problem upstairs and we didn't kind of get a private room. Um, But that doesn't matter. We'll just broadcast. Yeah. Loud and, and, you know. No, no. So it's good. That's why the, you know, the delay with the, um, start at, you know, for us. But, but the State of the Union, uh, no idea. I don't wanna go into that, but, um, I didn't mean that state of Oh, the miners of the wine, but it's, ever since I saw that, until, you know, I didn't watch it, but I heard about it. But anyhow, it's triggering. Well, yeah, I'm going to lose it in a minute. But, um, no, but it's, everything's good. Everything is really flowing well. And, and that's, that's the key. And, um, a friend of mine died and I was able to deal with it a lot better than probably in the past. I don't know, but you know, he, he, he had a couple of strokes. He had been in the nursing home, so I don't know if it's maybe I haven't seen him in a while, so I could actually distance and detach myself from him, but it was a guy I saw every single day, up until when he went into the nursing home. Young guy, about a little bit older than me, 58, but, uh, you know, and, uh, he was the best, but, um, um, And, you know, so, so with that, I'm still doing all right and I didn't have to rely on drugs or drinking to deal with it and, uh, or drinking and whatever, but drinking is my thing, but, uh, you know, but I'm not saying. You know, um, and that's where I'm at and we're here and, uh, you know, today was a good day started, you know, I'm running a, uh, Sunday set then no matter in Long Beach where I own parked out, but they, they gave me the Sunday commitment. So that was interesting. And, uh, and so, uh, you know, it's, um, life is good, no complaints. And watch the bomb break when we, when I walk out of here. No, but it was serious, but I would know how to deal with it. I wouldn't know how to deal with it. If anything bad did happen all of a sudden, because I have the tools now that I'm utilizing with, you know, friends like Katie and Benny, where can I go wrong? I don't know.

Benyi: 4:22

All right. Um, yeah. Thanks. So, yeah, me also, unfortunately, I had to deal with, uh, death of, like, somebody I knew, um, my, one of my best friends, I mentioned him earlier, uh, he's one of the two who called my mom, uh, he lost his brother last week, and I had to go there yesterday for support, just get back today, you know, a bit exhausting, um, yeah, you know, Dealing with it. Uh, especially I knew his partner well too. Um, yeah, it sucks, but you know, what are you going to do? Drink? Nah, that's not an option. So, you know, it's definitely different to ride the wave of grief with, you know. Without any substance, like, it's just like, it's different, like, you know, and it is also so much more acceptable, socially acceptable to drink over it. Nobody will tell you anything about it. Nobody will tell you to do it. Yeah, like, oh, you're just respecting. He lost his father. He lost his border. He lost his mother. Here we go. Get the point like, you know, because you probably deserve it. But yeah, so this is definitely, um, different. Uh, and yeah, dealing with that. Um, or

Rich: 5:49

have a drink for him because that was the thing with my friend. Yeah, a lot of people were saying, you know, so, uh, yeah, you know, it's kind of acceptable for that. So I understand where you're coming from. Uh,

Benyi: 6:03

my dad, uh.

Kate: 6:04

He died and he, he passed away because he just didn't take care of himself and was a diabetic and like addicted to sugar and all this other stuff and like for his uh, anniversary of, it was his birthday, we go out to like the tracks where his ashes were sprayed, whatever, sprayed sounds weird, you know, scattered, scattered, and um, You pour like a bottle of Mountain Dew and I'm like, this is weird. It's like, kind of like if it was an alcoholic and died of like liver, like, you know, or like, you know, like somebody overdosing on something, you know, let's do this to them. Oh, geez. I'm like, I don't like it. The whole thing of it.

Benyi: 6:39

Yeah, exactly. Um, but yeah, what are you going to do? So, yeah. All right. So now, um, first topic, what did I order to Europe? Um, yeah, so year one, after having eight months, I believe, several months, and then I had one night of labs and, uh, I put warrior together. Um, I was expecting to get superpowers, but I didn't. So that's, that's not how it works. Um, the thing, I think, I, I think I didn't like the day count. Like, people know that I don't care much about the day count. So the thing that like, um, I was surprised by was, uh, the closer I got to one year, the more self conscious about it. I was like, I was like, Oh, okay. So I'm one week away. Then I'm two. I didn't really stress about it. That would be too much to say that I stress about it. Uh, it's just like, it was, it was more in my mind than I thought it would be. And I remember my former, uh, my former sponsor, which should still be called sponsor. I don't understand that, but like, it told me that even if you don't count your days, when it comes close to the anniversary, you're going to be more mindful about it. And I was like, okay. Um, and it did happen, you know, uh, so one reason, um, let's go over why I didn't want to celebrate it in a or anything like that is like, first, it doesn't sound like to me, like a comfortable situation, um, for those who don't know, like most a groups, when you celebrate your one year anniversary, um, You get coins and also like they, uh, try to celebrate which you fall. So you a

Rich: 8:40

pest of me right now. For what? Here's a coin for a year. Congratulations. Ah,

Benyi: 8:48

I'm just, no, I'm not dust.

Kate: 8:51

That's actually, I have a lot to

Rich: 8:52

speak out. That's talk, that's actually my coin. I got, uh, in

Benyi: 8:59

Thanks guys. Calling here. I don't know if you can see it, but Yeah. Yeah. In July.

Rich: 9:04

July, July of this year, I got that.

Kate: 9:07

I did

Rich: 9:08

too. So I'm passing it on to you. All right. Thank you. Cause I, that was, yeah, that was good. That I got a note for us for, uh, for July 25th or 20, whatever that weekend was, 2023 was a year from it. So I'm passing that to you. And I knew coming here with that coin, I was like, is he going to throw it at me? Cause I knew I was, you know, what the numbers, but anyway, it was like here. It's

Benyi: 9:35

no, no, I will definitely accept your coin. Like, you know, I'm not going to throw it away. It's just like, I'm not,

Kate: 9:42

it sounds like you're like going to like a little village, like, you know, it was like, Oh, here is this gift of like, shit or something. Oh, at least that's it. Because, you know, I'm going to be polite, you know,

Benyi: 9:56

I

Rich: 9:56

traveled by horse to get it to you. In carriage.

Kate: 10:02

criticism even before that blablabla, stretching and stuff

Benyi: 10:06

yeah, i mean, um, yeah, so like um, you said like, you had a lot of things to say about like the day coming and celebration and stuff

Kate: 10:16

everything, it's um, you know we talk, we kinda like criti I don't think we criticize but we kinda like we come out of AAA in like a Critical evil or something, you know, and um, I keep trying to shove myself into

Benyi: 10:28

this. Oh, wait, listen. Oh, they're gonna Probably yeah,

Rich: 10:32

Take two.

Benyi: 10:33

Take two. All right guys. I don't know if you noticed, but we switched places because, um, yeah, we got like, uh, move got kicked out. We got move because we're like, uh, in a place that was open, uh, at the library. It went and then, and, uh, somebody sneak

Kate: 10:52

Yeah, right out

Benyi: 10:53

there But, but that better because now we have a better, we have a better room, uh, enclosed room and. So, yeah, we starting this thing over

Rich: 11:02

now, um, because we did have the enclosed room in the past, but they had like a bathroom explosion or some sort of emergency. Yeah, they did in the second floor. second floor was shut down and that's why we were doing it in the library. And why, and not like in the,

Benyi: 11:18

yeah, not in the room, in the study room, but they found us a space. So Yeah. So I mean. What are the chances that the first time we do a live recording, everything goes right. So, uh, yeah, so, you know,

Rich: 11:32

but we're ready for the next time. So that's, so

Kate: 11:35

we're persevering to

Rich: 11:37

everybody out in, um, in the world there that's watching today. We will be ready and we're ready for the second part of part one.

Benyi: 11:47

But, um, so yeah, like, uh, let's pick it up from where we left it off. Uh, coins. Yeah. You gave me the coin. Um, thank you, rich for giving me the coin and Katie was talking about her vision on, um,

Kate: 12:05

the day count. It's really true. My vision, honestly, I feel like I keep trying to force myself into a, I see the value of AA. But there's just all these things that, like, don't align with me and what I agree with, that I'm kind of forced to You don't force to do it in AA, but it's kind of like a shut up, but don't ask, don't tell atmosphere. Like, if you're doing anything that is outside of this, it's okay, but don't really talk about it. Like, my sponsor that I have, like, literally told me that. And I was kind of I've been struggling, you know, this past year and a half. I've really been struggling trying to stay sober and, um, you know, I'll get a couple of months here and you had the same sober date at a certain point. Remember? Um, but I'm, I'm realizing that, you know, I can't do it this way. This isn't what I'm supposed to do. I really don't like the idea of a sponsor. I really don't design in the big book. I love the big book. Like I love those first, you know, I'm like 100. What is it? How many pages? 163 I knew that and I was afraid to say a wrong one But um, I feel like I don't want to like begrudge anybody anything But like I went in there and I started crying because I realized that I don't know if I said this last time I was On the podcast, but like I really have not been treating my family. Well, like I had like blinders on it like, you know And then I really had been like a dry drunk the whole time I was sober. And, um, you know, I was talking about it at a, you know, at AA and I was just like, yeah, you know, I've been doing all the right things, doing all the AA things, you know, feeling all this stuff. I've been treating my family like garbage. And like, I could tell that I hit a certain way because I think that they're all, no. A lot of them are probably doing the same thing. Like, you know, I feel like I get a lot of this, like a vibe of like anger there or something, you know, in a way that I don't, I,

Rich: 13:48

I don't wanna be that. I, I agree. And I, I, I have a different point. Uh, the point of view too, with the numbers, I loved it the first year. Mm-Hmm. I was beat. Trotting and whatever else, but, and I just love going to a meeting every day. No, and I would got to say another day that was me, but I understand how people don't like it and why the number, if you get too, if you get too caught up in one thing or anything, it can be bad, you know, like, like I just thought, and then after the first year I'm like, I don't, you know, I don't. Really go crazy over the, I don't count the numbers

Kate: 14:24

and

Rich: 14:25

it was just, it was just good for my mindset for the first year because I remember, all right, what's the day after one year? Okay. That's three 66, but I didn't start doubting, you know, what's happened. But to me, to get to that point. I really love that, but that was my feeling, but I can understand Benny and your feeling about how the, the day count can be weird and a lot of people don't like it. And the other thing is AA is as good as I think you make it to me. And I think that like, I do not run the cleanest program. I've told this a million times lately, not like I was hiding and I would keep, but like, yeah, I've done the steps once. And I do practice and I do service and I do a lot of talking outside. I go to different, um, VA, uh, the North court VA, I go to rehab centers, NUMC. I've gone to Hope Rehabilitation all over and I tell them, look, If C, and I told them there's like, if sitting in the corner on your head, eating peanuts keeps you sober, do it. And, and, and you know, to not to J but to be a realistic, whatever works for you. And it's not like Riches program or Benny's program or Katie's program, but you know, you, you take certain principles from AA and that you've learned from inpatient and outpatient, and then you. You know, put it into what works for you, because I mean, I've said this a couple of times when I go and I speak at places, someone might actually know that on page 64, paragraph three, line two, the fourth word is the other, but, but they can't stay sober. Or

Kate: 16:14

they're dry drunk. They do everything at the big book, but they go, they're miserable. Like, they're not

Rich: 16:17

nice people. I can't list the 12 steps. Honestly, I know the first one is I have a problem and my life is unmanageable and, uh, you know, I'm powerless, you know, but I don't know it word for word, but I've been sober for almost 20 months now. And the thing is, I incorporate it and I do that and I, I had a sponsor for six months, then organically at this, it just separated. And the thing about it was. With him, I worked with him from 9 a. m. to 7 p. m. every night for six months. So I saw a lot of my first and I did like it was like in depth, you know, like if you call it, you know, you have Navy SEAL training. I would say mine was really deep training. I feel like

Kate: 17:04

that's how AA is. It's like if that is what works for you being put in like a SEAL camp or whatever and like military stuff, like I'm all for it. No matter what AA is. It should not be. It's like, literally, where else are you going once you're out of

17:16

rehab?

Rich: 17:17

Yeah, that happened for the first six months. And then I'm saying, then, and I needed that. I needed that discipline. Rich, you got to go to you. And for six months, I went to a meeting or three meetings a day, a hundred. And I was blessed where I didn't have to work. You know, so I could concentrate on sobriety. Not many people have that opportunity that I did, and I was blessed for that. But, and not that I didn't work, but I wasn't like really chasing, you know, people that the clients down, but the thing is, and that was what I did intense program, but then I'm like, now I'm like, all right. Now I can go to like, we're going to a game, a Nick game, the, uh, the Tuesday night. Um, the thing is, some people are like, Oh, I can't go to Madison Garden. I can't go to the Yankees. I can't go to the Mets. I can't go to the Jets or Giants because there's going to be alcohol there. I'm like, well, then your life is just not over, but then your life is going to be put in a box. Like somebody said the other day, they got a invitation and it was a guy. I went, uh, Well, I didn't graduate with him, but we went to the same high schools, uh, and they invited for the alumni to a, um, it was a bourbon tasting and, you know, and jokingly, I'm like, they're trying to get it to see, they're trying to suck you back into drinking joint. And another guy that was an alumni was like, never send me that again, because if I see the word, and he's sober 30 something years. If I see the word. Bourbon tasting or whatever it just it just and I'm like, this is part of what I'm like I'm actually I'm agreeing with you with that where that makes you that

Kate: 18:56

no, I'm saying like my whole point is like, oh, sorry Yeah, yeah, go ahead. No, my whole point is like I mean I need to go somewhere. That's not a a like I I It's whatever I do it's gonna whatever my life becomes so much of it is based on a a in the positive direction more than like pretty much anything But it's not where I'm supposed to be to be my best version of myself. I, when I do AA, I, you know, I'm, I feel like when I'm not at an AA meeting, I'm kind of like, you know, and. I just feel like I don't I don't like the idea of a sponsor. I don't agree with everything, you know and This is the thing last time I was like, you know what I just had to give up I have to surrender I have to give up and just listen to somebody tell me what to do and I just started to do it and i'm like I don't think that I was put on this earth and went through everything I just went to to sit here and listen to what someone else Has to tell me to do like, that's not what I want to do. I don't know. I mean, maybe that works for you and not good. That's wonderful. That does not work for me. That's not what is using the best of everything that happened when I was in recovery. Um, I can't help people through AA because I don't really believe in AA in the way that the program is and that, and also trying to do the, you know, medical marijuana. It's very important. And like, it's like, I can't, everyone's like, just go to AA, you know, like I said, don't ask, don't tell. I'm like, I can't talk about anything then. And I feel really uncomfortable. I've been in, I feel like part of why I keep relapsing is like. I've been in outpatient for like a year and a half because I have nowhere else to go. Yeah. And there is some recovery but there's not a lot. Yeah.

Rich: 20:22

You know? It depends on the meeting because some meetings do allow you to talk about

Kate: 20:27

drugs. My point is I'm starting a new thing. I'm actually literally writing down a plan. It's going to be based on logo therapy, which is Viktor Frankl, which is about finding meaning in your life and philosophy, which is mostly like Buddhism and Stoicism, NAA. I'm literally, I'm, this is like a plan, like I'm writing it down and I'm going to try to do what I can to start this going because I don't have anywhere to go. I had to be in rehab forever. I don't have a good place I can go to talk about. Recovery in a way that's how I want to talk basically the other day how I want to talk about it So I'm like, well, I'll start my own group, you know But I really feel like I can help people that way more than I can help people And AA and because I'm just, that's not for me, you know, and I'm not going to sit there and change AA, like do your

Rich: 21:11

thing. One last point. And then just, no, the thing you were saying, no, the thing you were saying about the sponsors and stuff is that sometimes the sponsors, they're like, you know, now you have to go and do it. And I don't like that. I think it's historical. I think like now you have to go, no. And the thing is you, I want it to be organic that someone comes up to me and says, can you help me? And it's like, well, I. Don't know if I'm going to be a sponsor, but I'll definitely help you.

Kate: 21:38

Yeah. Sorry. Cause it's, yeah, it's like a power ship.

Rich: 21:40

Benny's mad at

Benyi: 21:41

us. Uh, so yeah, to really did it a little bit. So to go back to the day count, I'll find, I'll let you guys talk because you're my friend. You had to say to what, you know, say on your heart, what you wanted to say. But yeah, so the value of the day count, why I didn't go to the AA route and celebrate it at a meeting. And because it's often said that, Oh, the celebration is not for you, it's for others, which I, I understand where they come from, but I kind of disagree because if you're not comfortable with celebrating with other, because the setting also for me is like, it's too impersonal for me to be, I would rather be with you guys. We have the podcast, people can ask questions, we can like, you know, uh, publish it for me. It's more intimate than going to a meeting where I don't know anybody. They're going to come and say like, Oh, you know, like happy anniversary. That doesn't make me comfortable. And at the end of the day, I guess it's my sobriety. If I don't want to take the coin, I don't take the coin. If I don't want to show up there, I don't show up there. And. Um, I think to go back to what you guys say, I think like there's a good hybrid or hybrid approach between the fellowship and taking from what the big book is, uh, I have a sponsor who took me to the steps and he is a guy who is more, um, a big book focus. Then, uh, fellowship focus and the truth about some fellowship is like people derail those like, you know, like their group of people, first of all, and then the fact that they are like, Oh, we all fucked up. We all trance addicts. So imagine like the, the outside flavor that people want to put in, in like a recipe. That's. That being shown to work, right? So that's why, like, you know, like, um, the big book words, I believe there's some things to learn about it, but combine it with stories and Buddhism and also other tools. I think what helped me what to get where I am right now,

Rich: 23:54

the other, the other thing is before they ever had meetings, they would just mail the book to you and people would get sober just reading the book. Yeah. From what I've read about the history of AA and then the meetings. And my point is, I agree with you, but the point is, I think that some people need

Kate: 24:13

it a hundred percent agree a hundred

Rich: 24:15

percent need AA to be, you need a sponsor. You need to come every day. You need to do the 12 steps and this, and then that's it. And that's all they can do. But like for people like the three of us, and they're probably other, but not, I'm not trying to say that we're the best, even though we are, but, um, but like we have like, no, no, like I have a connection with Benny and you and, and so I have a sober support group. And so that way it's different if I didn't have the two of you or anybody else in sober support, I'd need to go to a meeting every day to see that, to have that social lubricant, they call where you, you meeting with people. And then I can understand, well, you're going to have a one year celebration and it's all the people there, but, but like now, and that was good for the first year. I don't know my second year or whatever. You know, it, it, it probably would. I, I understand where Benny's come from, where it's like, nah, I just wanna celebrate with my friends that really know me. Yeah. Why do I want somebody that's like Rich? Well, that's for people who really involved in it. You know? Why do I wanna meet with somebody that's like, rich? Are you sure you're

Kate: 25:21

okay? Yeah. That's what I'm saying. That's why I don't wanna, I don't wanna like, I don't wanna go in there and be like, I gotta change up aa'cause I see it working for people. Yeah. But it's like, what about for people? And I, it might work for me, but I could do it. I did it. That's not my I'm gonna live my best life doing it the way I exactly like that, you know And so I'm doing a disservice to like just every everything if I'm like, all right, I got to do it this way I can never and I'm also realizing China like I'm brainwashed myself the day count thing It's like I don't even know what my day count is It depends on like what substance you're talking about is like, you know, I like but you know, I started, you know I smoking like, you know, we a catabyst whatever the kids are calling it, you know and so my goal is that count or not and we doesn't really matter because I I, I go to South Oaks now and they really have a good program where it's like, we just want to see you progress, like it doesn't really matter when you, you know, they test you every once in a while, they let you come in and go like, we just really want to help you get better, and like, they're really good with harm reduction and stuff like that, and, Cause some, like, if I, I feel, I've always felt so grateful that I could even do AA. was like to not do AA, so I literally, I, I'm like, am I, am I branching off from AA? Like the Protestant church right now or something? Cause I want to know, like, I don't want to, AA was, is whatever I do with my life is gonna be inspired by AA. But I, I need something different and nothing is there that I need. I think it's a good

Rich: 26:36

template. And only certain people's mentality can say, yes, this is how I'm going to get sober, where it's the steps, the book, sponsor, but like, after you get, after a while, it's like, okay, I don't have to go to four meetings a day because now I'm not as broken as I was, not that I'm ever going to ever say I got this or I'm cured because, you know, That's, you know, you lose the humility and you, and you totally lose yourself. And like with AA, when I read somewhere, if you say you're a grateful alcoholic, you're less likely to slip or to relapse or to, to go back. So from the beginning, I was like grateful alcohol, just because I was like, all right, if that's going to keep me sober, I'm going to say grateful alcohol. If you want me to call myself. You know, whatever, whatever name zebra child or whatever, you know,

Kate: 27:34

And I feel like it's like there's this culture of like no we need to do everything the same that I don't even see The energy of that in the big book i'm like, why would like that's not in there like And they wouldn't the way you guys are angry. I feel like what i'm doing right now bill wilson was right here He'd be like, yeah, that sounds like a good idea. Let's do that Let's go in this direction because this is like I don't even know what this is anymore with these people like, you know Yeah

Rich: 27:57

And, and, and it's that group thing, and that's where Benny and I were, you know, hate, hate the group and hate people, but love individuals. And, and

Kate: 28:07

to join my cult? I mean, I, I describe people like, do you mean you're, you're starting a cult? I'm like, no, but I guess so.

Benyi: 28:15

So to keep in the same vein that you are talking about, uh, you know. So, what would you say to, how would you react to those people when they deviate from, basically, they ask you to be, um, for lack of better words, like a mindless follower of a thing that they call the program group? But when you read about it, you're like, when you read actually the big book that kind of deviate, like when somebody tells us, you're like, Oh man, the first year, you're not supposed to date the first year. Don't go to the, uh, don't go to the game, like 90 minutes and 90 days, like all those things. How do you

Rich: 28:51

react? I think it's good. Like, like I said before, a template and it's, and it's good, but sometimes you got to learn by your own mistake. I remember them saying, no, no, you don't get into any relationship. You don't make any major decisions within the first year. And, and, and you always have a sponsor within sex sickness, sex

Kate: 29:09

right? And slip within

Rich: 29:11

relationship within six months. My, I had no longer a sponsor. Within the first year I got into a relationship. It wasn't romantic. I don't know what the hell it was. We all know about, you know, that whole thing with. You know, whatever. Generally not a good idea

Kate: 29:25

pretty much ever in your life. But, but I'm just saying

Rich: 29:27

like, you know, when, and, and it's not necessarily, don't have a relationship, don't make business moves or money matters. Yeah. It's just like, well, you don't overdo, you're trying to overhaul yourself. Mm-Hmm. So why are you gonna like, bring in a relationship? Yeah. And why are you gonna bring in buying a house or this or that? Yeah. Not that you can't do it, but like, come on, work on your recovery.

Kate: 29:50

Well, my point is like with, uh. Like I don't feel like I feel like what happened is, you know, I think this is probably controversial But like Bill Wilson was a businessman, right? And so, you know, he probably you know wrote it with that kind of a person in mind cuz that's who he is And he's using his experience and also he's an alcoholic. So he's obsessed with himself a little bit. But um Like I feel like at least around here. I think it might be different everywhere you go locally I remember I was in Florida is a different vibe but around here. It's like it's kind of been like This like blue collar interpretation of it has been put on like, onto it. Yeah. And it's been like, you gotta do hard work, you gotta do this, you gotta just abstain. You gotta be miserable and you're sober and it's okay. And like, you know, like, it's just like, that has been, that's not in that book. Yeah. You know, like, that's not, that's like, that's thing that they s shoved down your throat. I'm like, where is this coming from? Like, yeah, that's not gonna work on me. I'm not, I, I was this close to this surrendering and I'm like, I'm not supposed to be this person laying down and being like, tell me like, no. You know, that's why I'm like, well, do it myself. I'm doing it. I'm going to start my own thing. And what about like, you guys can join me

Rich: 30:51

when, when, when the message at a certain group gets stale and it's the same people you're hearing the same stuff over and over that makes you want to leave and go somewhere else and talk to someone else and hang out with your sober friends and, or, you know, going to the city to the, to,

Benyi: 31:07

to, to bring that up. So like we. Going to the city and we hang out with people who are sober, curious, and we have those people who, you know, some like, so basically, let's

Rich: 31:19

give a shout out to sober Sally

Benyi: 31:24

and Alex. We're definitely getting married by the way, like this

Rich: 31:28

weekend, uh. Congratulations. Sucks.

Kate: 31:32

Sorry.

Benyi: 31:34

That fucked up.

Kate: 31:36

Just my opinion and my experience. Alright.

Benyi: 31:38

Okay, we'll go to the

Kate: 31:40

next. I'm sorry. I'm such a Debbie Downer about everything. No, literally, like the cat eats thing they talk about, she does that, I do that with everything. I'm like, oh, do you know that swans murder people?

Benyi: 31:50

But yeah, to go back to the, um, to the, so like New York City has a good sober clear space and in that space, very welcoming of people who are sober, curious or sober. That means like people who are mindful of their drinking, people who are trying to stop people who stop, but smoke marijuana and like, there's a different, um, when, when we are there, I'm going to speak for myself. When I'm there, I feel like I'm with people I can have a serious discussion with like, you know, like who are not like so gritty to tell me like, Oh no, you cannot do this. Like, you know, so we hang out. So there's a, there's a non alcoholic bottle shop called, uh, spread it away in Lolita. And basically when we go there, we hang out, people tell us what's there, you know, we, we, we mingle and they talk to us. Uh, and at one point we go in circle and people share their story, what's their relationship with alcohol while they wanted to hang out at a sober event. And no drink. So like, you know, we have a lot of like non-alcoholic options. It's like non-alcoholic brush for like, for wine, uh, non-alcoholic beer, anything. So other things that I don't even taste remotely, like, you know, alcohol

Rich: 33:06

that, oh, it's not like an imitation.

Benyi: 33:08

It's not. So you have the variety of non-alcoholic thing. So basically it's just a hangout with people who are. So, or sober. That's cool. I'd love to

Rich: 33:18

try that. Kids and AA would probably say they'll preach to them. No, AAA would say that, or not aa, but people in AA would say, yeah, that's necessary. That's be great. Yeah. People in AA would be like, Benny and Rich, you guys are both going, you're gonna, you're gonna screw up, you're gonna relapse because you're going, and it's like, no. It's like I'm, I'm. Um, I'm strong enough and for, uh, you know, I feel more confident about my own self and I can actually go and the person next to me is drinking alcohol and I can talk to that person. Exactly.

Kate: 33:50

I'm like, if this is all he talks about all the time is like, you can't, well, not all the time, but like a big part of the book is fear. It's like, if you can't be afraid and so you're clearly afraid you didn't do the program, you didn't do it right. You're a miserable person. And, but like, I'm supposed to be different from that in that group. I, I, you know, that's just, what's over there. And I. I can talk the language because like my dad was a miserable blue collar man But like I don't want to be like these people and I want to start like I also like I want to start like I'm You know I want to get my social my master's in social work at like, you know so I'm actually writing this down and like structuring a recovery approach for it because it's people are literally dying like I get people literally dying and suffering because I know for me like I, yeah, I can not smoke weed and go to AA every single day and feel miserable and empty. I, I can do it. I can plot along and do it. I can get things done, but like, let me try this way, you know, and see if I can do some other way. And they're just there, I have to like kind of forge, and you know, these people too, you have to like forge our own paths with this stuff because, and people in AA, they, like, they, I, I know this because when I first started telling people, like, you know, they can smoke weed? Rehab. They're like, oh my God, that's disgusting. And I was like, yeah, yeah. So like I know what the attitude is there about it. Like I already know.'cause I was there and I saw how they reacted to it, you know? So I think we just need to start something new, you know, come

Rich: 35:09

up with, I love aa, like I love me. I love the big book book. Buy. The thing is, is that you, I feel you have to take your own thing and it's not rich as ai. Mm-Hmm but like. And, and what was it, Leo Hurley, 50 years sober, he said it at rehab a bunch of times cause he came in and spoke at least once a week and he's like, take what you want, leave what you don't want. Yeah, so Buddhism says too. And, and that is like, and the other thing is that I follow is Bill W. had said three, he goes, don't get caught up in the steps. He's like, try to be the best person that you can be. Don't harm yourself. Try to help somebody else. I'm, I'm, I might be quoting it wrong at where don't, don't harm yourself. Try to help another drunk and by God, by the end of the day, you look at the 12 steps and you've done them all.

Kate: 36:00

That's what I happen. That's what I always said. I already did these technically, like not in

Rich: 36:04

a row. They do it like mind masturbation. You know, where they're like, all right, I've done one, I've done two, I've done three, I've done four, I've done, and I've done 12 and that person is not sober, but someone who's like, well, I kind of did one. Well, not I kind of, I did one, but all the others I'm kind of learning didn't in my opinion, I'm not being the guru on it, but

Kate: 36:28

I've been in this for 10 years. So I think if

Benyi: 36:31

I were to resume this, it has to be with. Your level of self awareness, like how self aware of your person you are, like, um, and self aware is not necessarily like, so like there's 2 ways of being self aware, like there is your internal self awareness, like how you can evaluate yourself. Critically, right. And that's the one where, when we're addicts that we're faulty at, because we're like, Oh, I can stop anytime I can stop. Like, but when you start regaining like that self awareness and be like, okay, this is how I feel. This is where I get, like, this is where basically. Um, for me, the meaning of being spiritually fit at all times is being like, as accurate possible of your self awareness of what you really feel and how you are like going through without lying to yourself, being accurate about that. Yeah. And some, and unfortunately, like some people, what I see in other environments is, you know, There's not a level of self awareness. It's just like I'm gonna just follow this like religion and not think for myself

Kate: 37:49

people are Yeah, but

Benyi: 37:51

you're not free A

Rich: 37:55

lot of people like it's a good playbook is a is like a great playbook as this is what you have to do And it will Yeah, I mean, I don't think

Kate: 38:04

it's a playbook, I think it's like a spiritual text, like it's not even the rules, he's not really like about the rules and that either, it's way more about like, uh, this is what you did to people, let's think about it, this is how you think, and like, I know he's like describing me exactly, I don't think he's describing everybody, but like He's definitely describing me and I think it's a spiritually written book and there's rules in it because he's also a businessman, he's got to sell it, like he's got to sell these things and he's got to make it so people can understand it. And it's not just like, here's this vague book, you know, there's a problem.

Rich: 38:34

You have to be that one with the rules. I mean, you do have to follow certain rules because otherwise it's just not. It's not like it was a

Kate: 38:43

plan, like this is what you should do is an actual

Rich: 38:46

plan, you know, read, get a six pack and read the 12 steps and you'll be sober. No, that's

Kate: 38:50

something though. You were talking before about people who are afraid, you know, and I'm realizing it's like, you know, I have it in my head, like this whole time before, you know, I'm trying to get sober. It's like, you can't just have, you have one and that's it. You're done. You have one and you're done. You're going to be dead. You're going to die. And I feel like so much of that and how I get out of control with stuff is because I'm doing it secret, look secretively because it's the, it's the, the, the, the, the, the, the secret. I'm not supposed to do everything, anything at all in my life ever again. Um, And, I know I have to stop, so I'm doing it compulsively, immediately, because I know there's gonna be an end, I have to stop, and I shouldn't be doing it, so I'm, oh my, this, my perspective on me taking this substance is already pushing me towards abusing it, because it's like this filthy little thing, so. And i'm realizing it's like I am brainwashed whether or not it's true or not. I don't even know I know i've been brainwashed. I might be right It could be 100 percent be right like you take one drink and you're gonna whatever but like I don't know that Nobody knows that and i've been brainwashed and i'm trying to sit here and i'm brainwashed myself and i'm brainwashed myself And say, you know, like maybe you you can do this. Maybe you can do that Maybe you're not this and also so much of the i'm brainwashing doing is also building up my confidence in myself As a person Like, you know, but that's also such a dangerous place to navigate and I don't know how to tell anybody to do that I think that's something everybody has to do themselves Yeah, but there is no avenue to do that where you can get support you can get help It sounds like the sober first place would be somewhere but like I want I want like the weed thing like I want to talk to people and have guidance and like be held accountable about this I want Fortunately south oaks is pretty good. I don't feel too bad talking about it But I feel bad for other people in there that aren't doing it Like I I know I was jealous and I was afraid about it But And there's nowhere for me to go talk about it, where it's not like some weird thing. Like, even

Benyi: 40:36

finding a space about talking about harm reduction. Yeah, harm reduction, that's what it is. Which I believe in. No, that's not me, but I have seen people. It's, yeah. Like.

Kate: 40:46

Science. Yeah,

Benyi: 40:48

like. Like, talking, having a space where you could talk about it. Talk about harm reduction safely is like, it's like a heresy to most people. You know, this is

Kate: 40:59

Why do you have Luke Skywalker like, that's not true, that's impossible. You can't

Rich: 41:03

get sober without AA and some people are just like, they're trying to brainwash other people. Who is it? It's famous Cece Sabathia of the Yankees. He, he, he does not go to AA, but he's been sober since 2015. And what he does is he's such a public figure that he says he's an alcoholic and he's like, if. You know, that's his accountability because if they're like, ah, CC is out again, he's gone. It's like, Oh, there's a problem. And he's keeping himself busy. He has his own pot. He has a podcast with someone else. It's about sports, but you know, like to me, it's all about like your life and busy and being the best person that you can be. Because with me, I can't drink ever again. And, and yes, I, I'm an alcoholic, but at the same point, it's like. I, I don't think I would want to drink again because life is so good and I'm having, and it's like, I was sick of my own bullshit and I'm like, I'm done with that. And it's like, things are getting better losing 61 pounds, you know, this and that boxing, you know, you know, doing the 75 hard meeting, you know, women, other, other friends who are guys and this and that and whatever. And just the things are just expanding. And that

Benyi: 42:26

comes from a guy who has a commitment and a meeting every Sunday. So, yeah,

Kate: 42:31

but like, I feel like for me, for me, like I get kind of empty. I ha I always say I have a spiritual hole in me. Whatever this addiction is for me is a spiritual hole. It's why I really identify with AA. Um, but every once in a while, everything just kind of drains the color, especially during the winter time, I have really bad seasonal depression and I get very uninspired and unmotivated and kind of like, if someone's not putting me, like you have to go do this thing. I'm just like, well, Um, and I, I, like if I, you know, smoke cannabis, I don't know, I feel like it's like informal saying weed, but like, it just kind of like lightens me up and then I get inspired and, but eventually it kind of fades away. It's weird. It's not like, it's not like I'm doing it to get high, so to speak. But that might be different for somebody else like and then like somebody else my grandfather was an alcoholic and had no duels every single Day and stayed sober. So I always knew that was bullshit Because i'm like my grand and the allergy thing, too I'm, like he drank every single night. He had 10 duels and he was fine So I was thinking about part of him is like i'm like why why do I? Have this in me where I think I have to do this this way And also the last time when I first started smoking weed like I felt so guilty about it the whole time that I, I was making myself set off that it wasn't going to work for me, you know, you had to go through. I think it's like you said, it's all about intention and you had, you had to be at the right place and you had to be constantly gauging yourself and seeing like where you. Where you're at and knowing what you want and knowing, like, am I doing this just because I want to get fucked up? Like, maybe it is and maybe, you know, just, just try to keep your own temperature.

Rich: 44:01

You're so right about that word intentions. And what is your intention of doing any of this? And then in the past, I never, consequences and intentions just didn't matter. I'm like, well, I'm going to help that girl out because she's hot, not, not because I want to help her, but like, well, yeah, I want to help her. But like, also it's like a bonus, like a bonus, she's, she's good looking. So maybe, you know, but now it's like then, but once you realize, you know, what am I, what is my real intention? And then that won't get you into trouble because in the past, it's like, it really got

Kate: 44:40

You know that for me, I, you know, your intuition, you know, when you do that, but that's hard to, am I doing, do I know I'm doing it for the wrong reason? Or am I just feeling guilty because I've been brainwashed to feel this way? And I've been doing it and like noticing like, oh, I think like. Maybe I can do this and maybe I've definitely been brainwashed. Like maybe it's helpful that I've been brainwashed. I don't know, but like. I didn't come to that conclusion

Rich: 45:02

on my own. But yeah, but the thing is, you are doing something good, but like, what is your ulterior motive and intention and whatnot? I want to make

Kate: 45:10

my life bigger and better. And

Rich: 45:11

you want to make it better, and, and like, when you understand that, and grasp that, to me, sometimes the guys and the women, And AA is like, I don't know, you guys are younger than me, but do you remember scared straight?

Kate: 45:26

Yeah, my friend,

Rich: 45:27

they had scared straight, you remember that? Yeah, I remember. So scared straight was a thing, not about like alcohol, but it was like to all these teenage, uh, you know, young teens were like, It's obvious episode, we're gonna go into jail. Yeah. You know? So they would have all the big thugs from jail. Yeah. And just scare the living shit. Oh, when they go visit the jail? Yeah, when go So, so I'm like, sometimes the AA is like you, if you drink again, blah, blah, blah. And they try to scare you into like. And it's like, you know, you got to have your own pathway to, to what you want to

Kate: 46:01

accomplish. I think that's why so much of it becomes war stories is because those were the best times of those guys lives. Like those were the best times, you know what I mean? Like those were the best times and I love AA, I love AA because I hate every other hour of my life. Like, it's just like, this is the only place where I can relax. I work probably like 20 hours a day.

Benyi: 46:23

I never saw that. Yeah. I don't think about that. I feel like some people, unfortunately, like is the only time where you get that kind of reminence, the good old days and say anything about it and relive it. Yeah. Really? Very bad.

Kate: 46:36

You can tell they missed it. Like I, part of me misses it when I, you know, my whole thing is I didn't have any responsibility, you know? So they liked

Rich: 46:42

it back then. People that go, really. In depth answer it, then you know, you

Benyi: 46:46

know, you know, let's talk about which gangster they used to hang New York

Kate: 46:51

problems. Like, so

Benyi: 46:55

we have like five minutes left and I wanted to and ask you guys this. So now that I have a year and I did it like the hybrid way. Well, when you say like, you have your version, so we explain everything. So what will you say to somebody? Because now that I did the steps, I'm supposed to go out and sponsor somebody, apparently, I mean, my sponsor is pushing me to, but I don't want to go. I don't, I don't want to go sponsor hunting. Like I'm not going to say that you have your program. You maintain yourself and somebody notices that you seek your, and you're not shaking your boots that they come to you for advice. What would you tell them

Rich: 47:47

really start? I'd be like, well, one, I hate that thing with sponsey hunting. They do that. And it's great that at the end of a meeting, they're like, if you've had a spiritual, you know, awakening, Are you able to sponsor? And, and so then someone needs it because they might need a sponsor. Yeah. To me, if I'm going to sponsor someone, it would have to be organically happen. Yeah. One, I'm not comfortable enough because my program is not the cleanest program in the world. And you know what? The guy or the girl, not the girl. Do you get it? The guy relapses. Whatever. Yeah. You know. The person. But I would rather help just be able to be like, help someone and be like, if you really want to sponsor. Here's a list of people. You

Kate: 48:28

did the Sharper thing,

Rich: 48:29

right? The Sharper thing? I was for a while, but I mean, that's like more or less people come in and they're clients and you know, whatever. You're helping people. That's what I'm saying, but it's not like technically a sponsor. And some of these sponsors make you call them every single morning to make sure that you're up to date. And it's like, come on. Yeah. I love, so like, yeah, I've

Kate: 48:53

been, and it, this makes me more anxious. It makes me wanna do drugs more than I have to call you every day. And,

Rich: 48:58

and I, and I've done all the, all this and, and like, I love your sponsor, Jay, but I'm like surprised that he's pushing you to do that just because never pushed, not pushing you, but like digest your, your sobriety. I would think that like digest it and then be like. You know, let it organically happen to me. If like, if someone comes up and rich, rich, I've been watching you for like six months in your program, you now, whatever the 19 months over. And I love what you're doing. Can you, and I'll

Kate: 49:29

sit down again? Like, why are you doing this? Cause you have to, because you like really want to sit

Rich: 49:36

down and talk to the person and say, this is what I do. But as far as sponsoring. I don't think

Kate: 49:43

I need boundaries in place with people and I

Rich: 49:46

don't think I'm the right person to sponsor just because I do things outside the box. Yeah, exactly. I don't even do it. And it's like sometimes, sometimes, you know, and I don't go to a meeting every week, every day. You know, I go at least three or four a week, or two a week, at least two a week, but I'm speaking at other meetings, so I am

Kate: 50:04

probably, I am

Rich: 50:07

probably going to four or five meetings a week, because I'm speaking at a bunch, but like, To me, what I'm doing and spreading the message by speaking at rehabs and speaking at meetings and doing what

Kate: 50:20

I always want to do and showing what

Rich: 50:22

I've done and what I'm about because I blew these people away and I didn't even feel it like the people in New Hope were like, You're amazing. And I'm like, well, yeah, you are, you can say it too, Penny. We're like, yeah, no, but you know what I mean? And like, to me, if I can impact somebody that way, that I think I can be more effective than sponsoring just one person because I could reach maybe 20, 30, 40 people, depending on the

Kate: 50:51

size. I feel like sometimes they say people in AA that like, you know, we're messengers and whatever, and I really feel like we are like, it's how it's the program set up and it's like, How do you spread the message to people the best i'm the same way I think I spread it the best by being like Having a public voice and organizing or whatever doing something like not just one person Because I don't I don't like that. I don't know like it's too like intimate. It's always with a girl I I have trouble with that Anyway, you know like I don't trust and I have trouble with that with any random woman on the street Let alone a woman in a a like or like they're I don't even I also don't care if everybody knows my shit it's just like I feel like they're like Do you actually like me or like I, I catch up and I threw

Rich: 51:30

up a point to someone and I said, well, you know, if I sponsor somebody, what if by me sponsoring someone leads me to relapse? Oh yeah, exactly. You know what if that happens because I'm sponsoring someone and that person's so ed up because of the alcohol or the drugs or this and that. It happens all the time.

Kate: 51:48

Sure.

Rich: 51:49

Yeah. I happens all the time when I was helping this guy out east and, and, and. I wasn't his sponsor, but I was like hanging out with him every day and doing things his and I was trying to say, no, you're being crazy and you're with the crazy woman and this, and he wouldn't listen and he wouldn't listen and then I was like, it was almost leading me to maybe it was, it was like impacting my sobriety and I had to get, and I broke it off and I was like, that's it, I can't hang out with you anymore because you're going to lead me down the wrong path. Yeah. I

Kate: 52:24

don't want to go to that's that's another point. I want to meet you. It's like, it's like, you know, people always will, like, kind of explain sobriety is like, you know, well, it's everything's a gateway drug. And like, once you start doing 1 thing, like, you're going to do all the things. And again, I'm like, I feel like that's because of, like, the attitude that we have about it, like, because And it's like, well, see what happened to him. What if you did drugs at this point? I'm like, I feel like sometimes if you, I don't know how this would be implemented, but like if you gave yourself a break when it was like earlier on the process, he wouldn't like crash later on because you're trying to hold it together, you know, like,

Benyi: 52:57

Oh yeah. By holding it too tight.

Kate: 52:59

You're doing

Rich: 53:00

something wrong. I don't know if I could really get on someone if they're like, well, you know what, Richard didn't, I, I just, all right, you did step one. That's great. Boom. Perfect. And it's not like, did you do, did you do step two? Did you do three? Did you? That's not my style. So like, I don't know if I would be effective for that person. And I think what I do to with AA and around AA and talking to people and spreading my message, like I impact people up. There are people from the gym that like, no, I'm an alcoholic and they're like, wow. You know, and they're like, you've really moved me. I can't, but I don't even realize the shit I'm doing, but I'm just saying it's like, like, like a couple of people say, you know, we listened to your podcast, not your podcast, but you're on bed and we've listened to you and it's the, someone just came up to me the other day. And was like, well, I heard the podcast with you and Benny and Felipe and it was like, that was an amazing one. And, and, you know, so I was like, that's great. I'm glad you listened to it. I think

Benyi: 54:07

like me, my approach, I will definitely, if I had somebody who will come to me to ask for help personally, I will definitely teach them the steps, the way I will stop, because I think like, if I don't want to deviate from what I was taught and that really helped me. I'm going to be honest with them. I'm going to be like, Hey man, I also use like stoicism, self awareness. I read books about like, you know, like intentions and stuff. I cultivate myself. I'm not just a, like, you know, I'm going to let them know. And if that's something that they think they can do. I'm going to be, this is me, my recipe right there for me to stay sober. That's what kept me sober for like the past year. You know, like I cultivated myself outside of a

Kate: 54:49

cultivate your

Rich: 54:50

recovery. There's no way

Benyi: 54:53

like you can. Just going to meetings, sitting in a chair every day. It's going to kick you down. I'm

Rich: 54:57

doing things that make you

Kate: 54:58

happy. You could be sober, but it won't be happy. Yeah, but I'm doing

Rich: 55:01

things that are making me better. I'm doing, I'm doing things that I used to always do when, but I was drinking. But now it's like, and, and it's like, You know, like I, I have a wacky that, you know, I'm a devout Catholic stoicism and Buddhism that doesn't match

Kate: 55:16

and you look like a monk that's actually doesn't there are people like that. Jesus was a Buddhist. There's a whole and I'm

Rich: 55:21

saying like, they're like, my whole thing is like different than like then. And they're like, what? You know and I'm like, but that's how I got it because it just brings everything together for me It makes me better and and that you know, so I agree with you and no no group 12 steps Remember somebody

Kate: 55:39

said I wanted to say to the 12

Benyi: 55:41

steps No Can you do it in a

Kate: 55:44

minute? Yeah I just think that the steps are in the wrong order or they're in a different order for everybody and Everybody can't step and start at step one Or it's up to a three. I, you know, so I feel like that's a whole thing. All right. That's

Benyi: 55:56

number

Rich: 55:58

one. You have to practice every day.

Kate: 56:00

You have to stop. You have to stop. I'm

Benyi: 56:01

sorry. All right, guys. Uh, thank you very much for joining in and listening to the first episode. I mean, First live one technical, but, uh, yeah, we recorded the episode anyway. So we're going to post it on the main page and on our Patreon as usual, guys. So I will see you

Rich: 56:20

later. And we will have a next one now that we're pros at this.

Benyi: 56:26

All right.