Episode 49: Queer and Sober

Benyi: 0:05

Hi, my name is Benny Johnson. As some of you know, I've been struggling with addiction. However, I decided to change my life and went into recovery. I started this podcast 90 days clean and I want to take you along in my journey. What does lie ahead of me? Let me be frank. I do not know. Will I ever drink again? I do not know. This is how Stairway to Redemption was born. It is my search for answer in a real time process of what is going to work for me. It is then my aspiration to help you figure out what is going to work for you. It is our journey together. Hello there, guys, and welcome to another episode of Stairway to Redemption. Today, my guest is Mercedes. Uh, we're going to open the second episode of 2024. We're talking about what are the challenges for the queer community when it comes to sobriety. And I have the great guest for you, uh, Mercedes. Mercedes, uh, how are you doing?

Mercedes: 1:33

I'm doing okay. I'm a little tired, a little groggy. Um, I'm on meds that kind of make me a little groggy. So, a little tired, but I'm hanging in there. Yeah.

Benyi: 1:43

Oh, okay. Um, yeah. So like, that's a perfect segue for the next question. Uh, the state of the mind address. So tell us what's going on in your life lately. Um, something deeper than, you know, I'm just doing fine.

Mercedes: 1:57

Yeah. Um, the, they're playing away. Uh, my doctors are kind of playing around with some dosages for my meds. So, yeah. So trying to adjust to some side effects and everything like that. But, uh, yeah. So just kind of dealing with a little bit. Sedation in the mornings and that kind of stuff, but, uh, yeah, hanging in there.

Benyi: 2:17

I see. Um, yeah, like, you know, I, I, I've heard a lot of things from, you know, the people who are taking a medication that like a, there's that period where like they just play around with dosage, like as if like trial and error, like, you know, um, I don't know what it's like, you're going to share more about it. I'm sure later, you know, because I'm sure it's part of the challenges you face, but why don't we start, um, with your story? So, like, um, how, what was your relationship with alcohol and, uh, how did it start?

Mercedes: 2:54

Yeah, I would say I've never really had a healthy relationship with alcohol. Um, I'd say I started drinking around like maybe 17 or 16 or something like that in high school. Um, and yeah, I, I can remember even like the first time I drink, like it was like complete blackout, like just, you know, binge drinking, um, that sort of stuff. So, um, kind of all throughout my teens and like early twenties, I was, um, I was never really like a daily drinker, but I was definitely like a binge drinker on like weekends and stuff like that. Um, so yeah, so definitely struggled with that. Um. And yeah, I never really was able to kind of find a way to have like that balance or moderation for me personally. Um, yeah, like I mentioned, I'm on a lot of meds. So I started the meds around 17, 18, uh, when I was around 17 or 18 years old. And, uh, So the medications interact with the alcohol as well and kind of make it a little bit stronger, uh, in terms of like, you know, getting, getting drunk or, you know, stuff like that faster. So that was also a challenge. And then I did have a period of about four and a half years of sobriety, um, which was really good. And then I relapsed at the end of last year. So I've been kind of going back and forth. Um, relapsing, having periods of sobriety, you know, going back and forth. So I'm still kind of trying to get back on that. Um, that's, you know, sober path and everything like that. So kind of in the middle of, of kind of readjusting my journey. Yeah.

Benyi: 4:31

um, go do, like, that's very interesting because, uh, after having, um, I mean it's like a significant period of sobriety. Four years. I myself about to get hopefully one year next month. But what, what was, do you want to talk about it? What was the trigger that made it you relapse? Like, if you don't mind sharing with the audience. Yeah,

Mercedes: 4:54

of course. Um. It was a breakup. Um, uh, that was kind of the trigger, but I have like really bad mental health issues. Um, specifically borderline personality disorder. And one of the symptoms of borderline is that you can get really impulsive and that might be related to substances or not. Um, so for me it is, um, so yeah, so. Part of borderline is that you're very sensitive to rejection. So kind of having a breakup, um, really triggered that, like, you know, sense of rejection and, um, you then got impulsive and, you know, started drinking again. And so just been trying different things to kind of get back on. On that sober path. Yeah,

Benyi: 5:39

I see. Like, yeah, like, um, I have, uh, you know, like, that's what, uh, in the, especially in, I'm just going to keep it in the AA committee. They're like, always talk about like, you know, how, uh, you should not date or you should not date within a year or that kind of stuff. And Y'all story basically is a proof that, you know, like a year or four years, it doesn't matter like if those experiences happen to us, like, you know, um, it's not the guarantee that being four years sober is going to get you through it better than, you know, a year sober, so. But yeah, like, uh, how, how did you handle it? Like, uh, what's your process

Mercedes: 6:25

now? Yeah, um, I'm doing a lot of different things right now to try to work on my sobriety. Um, I'm working with like an addictions doctor. Um, so he is like trying out with different medications with me, uh, different craving medications. Um, so I'm on two different craving medications right now, um, that I'm trying as well. And then, uh, yeah, I'm, you know, I'm actively in therapy. Like I'm always in therapy for my mental health in general. Um, And then, uh, yeah, I would try to go to recovery meetings. Um, I use like this app, it's called the reframe app. It's like kind of an alcohol reduction app, uh, based on neuroscience. So I try to go to their recovery meetings at least like once a week or so. Um, so trying to do several different things, um, for my sobriety. Yeah. Yeah,

Benyi: 7:21

that's it. That's very interesting. That's cool. Uh, do you have like any activities that makes you I know you're a writer? Yes. Um, does writing helps you also with your recovery? Do you do like, do you have, do you have any other activity that are either spiritual or physical? That are outside of, um, that are not addiction related to help you stay

Mercedes: 7:49

sober. Um, I would say I really like mindfulness. So I try to do meditation a few times a week. I find that helps not just with sobriety, but with life in general. Um, I find it makes a huge difference and, you know, get feeling more grounded and centered and things like that. Um, and I would say, you know, just like basic things like, you know, trying to get out and see friends, you know, regularly, you know, going for coffee dates, things like that, it can, can help just kind of get you out of your head, get you out of, you know, the house and do, you know, doing different things. Um, I don't do it as much right now because it's the winter, but I, I really enjoy photography. Um, so I've been getting into that lately. Um, so I find that's nice to get creative and again, get yourself kind of out of your head and, you know, doing something a little bit more engaging. Yeah, yeah, that's

Benyi: 8:44

cool. Photography is a cool passion to have. Like I, I didn't get a chance, I don't know, passion to it for me, like the different lenses, different cameras, it was like just a little bit off putting that's, you know, like that's a lot too much work, especially that now like a phone can do a lot. So my, I guess my eyes not trained to see the difference or to appreciate the difference. So, you know, but kudos to you. Um, yeah, let's circle back with, um, to the mental health aspect of it. So. How is it navigating like mental health and being in the queer community? Is it like, describe to us how it is. Is this something that's very prominent in the queer community to have people who also deal with You know, uh, mental health issues when in

Mercedes: 9:46

addiction. Yeah, I'm honestly not sure about the, um, statistics on addiction. I know that specifically for, um, like I identify as either bisexual or queer. Um, I know specifically for bisexual people, um, there are higher rates of mental illness or, you know, experiences of abuse and things like that. Um, even compared to other members of the queer community. Um, so, uh, definitely for for by people, um, you know, and and for other groups as well. Um, there there are quite high rates of mental health issues or, you know, experiences of abuse. So, um, I'm not specifically sure about addiction, but, um, it's definitely, uh, It can be something that, yeah, there can be a lot of overlap, um, because, you know, the theory is that, you know, for bi people, you don't just have discrimination from people, um, who are, you know, outside of the queer community, but you can also experience discrimination from people who are within the queer community because, um, bisexual people can sometimes be You know, um, maybe like a little bit misunderstood or not included, um, by certain people. Um, so yeah, there, there can be a lot of overlap with mental health issues. Yeah.

Benyi: 11:06

Yeah. Like, uh, me personally, when, um, I went to rehab and, um, there were like, uh, three guys who were members of the queer gay community that were like really cool. And one of them was in my daily, uh, group. So like the way work every morning, no Monday, Monday to Friday, uh, every morning we had like, um, to get with our counselor, we had a group check and he was talking about how basically there was a certain blueprint. Um, for like the mental health check in the, uh, in the queer community is when the phase, when they have trouble identifying, um, finding themselves or finding the identity, right. And the being, uh, abused or harassed and it mess with their mental health. That's when it led to substance abuse to be able to cope with it. And that's why, like, I mean, from what I got from him, it was prominent that, like, in the queer community, you will see a lot of people abusing substances because You know, they felt like pariah of the society and to be able to cope with it, you know, what's your, yeah, what's your take on that? Like, what did you see yourself? Like, is that something that, like, you can agree with or you think there are other factors?

Mercedes: 12:42

I, I can't, I, I don't know if I have like a strong opinion on that. I, I honestly, like, I don't have too many friends that are also a queer. Um, I do have like one dear, very close friend. She's also queer and, uh, trans and, uh, They, they also have struggled with substance abuse. So, I mean, I, I have seen that in other, uh, queer folks that I'm friends with, but, um, I I'd say I don't know enough queer people to make like a huge, like kind of judgment on like, you know, how common it is. Um, but I think that makes sense that if, um, if they feel some sort of discrimination or things like that, that, yeah, it could be, um, something that might lead to substance abuse. Absolutely.

Benyi: 13:32

Yeah. Um, Let's talk about like that low period of sobriety. You had those four years. Um, what was your process? Like, you know, you said, like, you really being in mindfulness. Like, how did you, how were you able to put four years together?

Mercedes: 13:53

Yeah. Um, therapy again is a big one for me. Um, in terms of, you know, mental health and addiction. Um, I think, you know, for me, it's, it's something that if I'm, Yeah. Yeah. If I'm not investing in having therapy, um, you know, the rest of my life just doesn't go well. Like I, it's something that I have to, like, I do private therapy, so I pay for it, but, um, it's an investment that, um, I really can't skip like if I don't. If I don't engage in therapy, I'm not able to function properly. I'm not able to work. I'm not able to make money. So it's something that I really have to invest in and prioritize in my life. Um, another thing is, uh, for the four and a half years, I was really into yoga for a bit. Um, yoga was also quite helpful. Um, I would, uh, I would, um. Go to like classes pre COVID, like in the, in the studio and everything like that. Um, so yeah, um, I'd say yoga therapy and, um, yeah, those sorts of things.

Benyi: 14:56

Yeah. Yeah. I like that. You said yoga because I'm, uh, I'm a believer. I'm like also into mindfulness and, um. Even I found myself diving deeper into the Shaolin monk think way of thinking. There's that guy, Master Shi Hong Yi that I follow on YouTube. And I'm a one of the believer that in order to be spiritually fit, the body needs to follow somehow. So anything that's like, you know, physical activity at, um, at a steady, um, rate or like, you know, at the, at the good frequency, like I go personally to the gym five times a week and allows me to be physically fit. And mentally fit, like for, for them, for me, those two work in tandem and yeah, like yoga is definitely, you know, a good activity. I even had a chance to do yoga, uh, to try yoga when I was in, uh, inpatient, um, I try also Pilates. I prefer Pilates to yoga personally. Uh, I heard there's a war between those two. Oh,

Mercedes: 16:14

man.

Benyi: 16:15

Yeah. What do you, have you ever tried

Mercedes: 16:19

Pilates? I actually haven't. Um, but I know a lot of studios that offer yoga will like also offer Pilates. So maybe I'll have to try it out. Yeah. Yeah.

Benyi: 16:29

Yeah. Like, uh, what I found interesting about Pilates is like, it basically, it's more intense on the, um, on the ligaments and tendons. And it allows also once you work on those to even lift or heavier or like to, you know, improve your strength because you have a better range of motion. Um, but yeah, like those other. But, um, yeah, you said like therapy for you is a great, it's, it's paramount to your recovery. Um, what, what's make a great therapist? Like, how did you find your therapy? Like, or did you, um, do like trial and error or they assigned to you or when you just got lucky, what was the process like to find somebody?

Mercedes: 17:17

I've had kind of different therapists at different points in my life. Um, like I, like I've worked with different therapists for maybe a few years and then switched. Um, so yeah, I'd say what makes a good therapist is someone who, um, you know, is there to listen, but also can provide a lot of, um, You know, just giving you that objective third party feedback of like, you know, someone who's outside of your life. They're not your friends. They're not your family. Um, someone who can kind of look from the outside and see what's going on in your life and give you some perspective. Um, and I would say like my current therapist I found on a website called psychology today. Um, they have like a whole directory of therapists and everything. So you can just kind of go on there, search for different therapists by different issues or different, you know, on. Gender identity or things like that, um, that work for you and, uh, yeah, I'd say usually, um, they'll offer like a free consultation. So usually I'll do like, you know, maybe a few consultations with a few people when I'm looking for a therapist and then whoever kind of, you know, had that good connection. With then I would go with them and you know, they they've they've shown in like different studies that the connection you have with your therapist is more important than like whatever school of thought or techniques they're using. So it's like, really, you have to have that like vibe and you know, that, you know, rapport and be able to have a nice conversation together. Um, for it to work. Um, so, yeah, those are some of the things that have helped. Yeah,

Benyi: 18:51

yeah, that's, uh, that's very interesting like that. Like whatever connection is, is more important than, um, the school of thought that going to, but like, uh, speaking of that connection, do you think it's fair, it's important, how important is it to you that the therapist, um, has experienced emotionally the same things you went through? Um, let's say, let, let, let's say, yeah, for you, for example, is how important is it that like they experience the same mental health issues or they suffer also from addiction or they're part also of the queer community? How does that play for you?

Mercedes: 19:33

Yeah, um, I, I don't think I've had a therapist that has had the same, um, mental health concerns or addiction or anything like that, or even been a part of the queer community. Um, Yeah, I, I haven't really, um, had that like where, where the person has the same experiences in life. Um, I don't know that it matters for me personally. Um, because, uh, you know, even if they haven't experienced it, they've probably worked with people who have had similar experiences and, you know, therefore have, have kind of learned different techniques or ways to help people who have the same concerns. Yeah. Um, and yeah, so I would say it's not like a must or anything for me. Um, it would, uh, it would be nice like to have, you know, a queer therapist or something like that. It hasn't necessarily worked out for me, um, that way, but I would totally be open to it and would, would love, you know, to have someone who, who understands that part of my identity. But I'd say as long as the person is respectful and, you know, not judgmental about that part of my life, then. Then it doesn't really matter to me too much. Yeah.

Benyi: 20:45

Okay. So what was the, the reason you had to change therapists? So how many therapists you had to go through to the period of your life? Um,

Mercedes: 20:56

I'd say a few, like maybe three or maybe, yeah, something like that. It's three, three or four. Um, there was one I worked with for about like five years and we had just kind of worked through, um, yeah. Kind of everything we had worked through in terms of her school of thought. Um, and she, she just recommended that maybe I tried a different technique, maybe someone who had different styles and stuff like that. So, um, I just, uh, found someone new, um, one therapist, she changed her prices, unfortunately, so I, I wasn't able to afford her anymore. So I ended up switching and then, yeah, another one kind of same idea. Like we had kind of gone through. Everything we kind of could have gone through with, with their kind of techniques and school of thought. And so then switched, uh, switched it up a little

Benyi: 21:43

bit. Yeah, that's very interesting that like, uh, it's, it's as, as if to me, it sounds as if like at some point you, you outgrown all day. Taught you everything they could and the relationship is like, I don't know about to fizzle out or is about to get repetitive. So like, how, how does that come? Like, is it like, can you walk us through to like the period when the therapist tell you, Oh, maybe I should recommend you to somebody else? Like, how does that happen?

Mercedes: 22:23

Yeah. Um, just the, the, she just brought it up in like a conversation and one of our sessions, um, she didn't do it like right away. She wasn't like, Hey, this is over, like go find someone else. But she just let me know, like, Hey, like, you know, we, we might want to, you might want to consider trying something different. Um, you know, maybe you might have find someone who's maybe has some better techniques for what you were dealing with. Um, because borderline personality disorder, it's kind of, um, yeah. It's, it's not really like compared to depression and anxiety. Um, it's not necessarily spoken about as much or like necessarily understood as much, even by practitioners. So, um, it can be hard to find someone who really understands that condition and can treat it properly. Um, but yeah, so she just kind of communicated that maybe, you know, we'll try a little bit more stuff, but maybe you want to start looking for something different. Um, you know, maybe that would help you a little bit more. Um, so then just made that transition and, and looked for someone new. Okay. I

Benyi: 23:25

see. Um, interesting. Talk to us more about what BPD feels like in day to day life. Like, um, let's say like you take your meds every day, a good day. What does it feel like?

Mercedes: 23:43

Yeah. Um, so for me, I have depression, anxiety, and BPD. So they all kind of overlap and interact in different ways. Um, I'd say, It's not necessarily, I don't necessarily have like borderline episodes or triggers every day, but on the days that I do, it just like derails my entire day. So like I might, you know, go a week with just having like You know, a pretty balanced mood and it's not too bad, but then there's a trigger, there's some type of rejection or anything like that, and then, you know, immediately, my mind just goes to like, I'll give a trigger warning for suicide, um, immediately in my mind will go to suicide, like I'll get suicidal ideation, I'll start planning on, you know, killing myself, like, it's just, it immediately goes to a very dark place, you And it can just be very overwhelming. You get really intense emotions, you know, things feel very intense. Um, and then, yeah, it's kind of very heightened and you know, that, that might last for maybe a few hours. It might last a day, you know, it can, it can vary. Um, but yeah, borderline for me comes in like those spurts of like, there's a trigger, there's some sort of intense. You know, thing going on. And then it gets very self destructive. Um, you know, compared to depression and anxiety where it might be a little bit more on the daily, a little bit more mild for me, at least, um, BPD just gets very intense. Yeah, I see.

Benyi: 25:19

Um, Oh, wow. I didn't know you had like a compounded situation, like, you know, so is it common that people who have BPD also suffer from depression and anxiety? Like, uh,

Mercedes: 25:33

Yeah, I don't know the exact statistics, but yeah, people with borderline typically suffer from, yeah, several other mental health issues. Um, yeah, typically overlaps with a lot of different, um, a lot of different concerns.

Benyi: 25:48

That's funny. And, um, you personally, like, how did that happen? Like, do you, is it from, did you add a history of mental illness in your family? Or, you know, was that due to, like, abuse in the experience

Mercedes: 26:03

of your life? Yeah, um, I'd say it was both. Um, I have a mental illness running on both sides of my family. Um, so definitely there's a genetic component, but yeah, I did deal with trauma growing up. Um, I won't go into details, but, uh, yeah, I have experienced trauma a lot, uh, growing up, especially. And, um, yeah, so definitely there's a trauma aspect. There's a genetic aspect, um, and that kind of stuff. Yeah.

Benyi: 26:33

Okay. So that's interesting. Like, yeah, like a combination of both. So how, how do you deal, what are your coping mechanism when you're having one of your episode, um, do you have a, a game plan you go through to take you out of it?

Mercedes: 26:53

Yeah, for me, I will use usually use different crisis lines. Um, so I will either call or text a crisis line and, uh, try to work with like some sort of, you know, counselor who's, uh, who's able to work with me. Um, so that's usually my go to, uh, crisis line. Um, If I'm able to get a hold of my, of my regular therapist, I will try to reach out to him. Um, he's usually pretty flexible on like, you know, sending a quick text or a quick email if I'm, if I'm struggling. Um, yeah. And then if, if I'm in the right head space, I will try the mindfulness, but it's sometimes it's so intense. You can't do the mindfulness. Yeah. Um, If it's really, really bad, you know, I'm starting to really, really plan suicide or have even attempted, then I will go to the E. R. Um, if it's necessary. Um, so, yeah, but I think crisis lines are like my number one. Like, that's what I go to first. Yeah, I

Benyi: 27:55

see. Yeah. And shout out to the crisis line. I don't even know all of them like, you know, um, Okay, I'm definitely going to list, uh, you know, the one for suicide prevention in the description, but, um, I wanted to abort the topic of social interaction because like, you know, like you said earlier, um, your relapse after four years was due to a bad breakup, but like, let's start with normal social interaction with friends and stuff. Um, how do you navigate, uh, the social scene, knowing that you have mental illness, like, is it something that you disclose to your friends early on? Or how does that

Mercedes: 28:42

work? Yeah, I'm pretty, I'm pretty open about my mental health issues. I'd say it comes up usually naturally in conversation. Yeah, I'd say, I mean, Yeah, at this point I'm not making like a ton of new friends. Um, but the friends that are in my life are definitely aware and very supportive. Um, or, you know, even have their own struggles that we support each other through. Um, so yeah, I'd say if I am meeting someone new, it's, it's something that usually comes up, um, that I will mention. Um, but, uh, yeah, my friends that are already in my life, yeah, they're, they're very aware and, um, they're, they're quite supportive. Yeah.

Benyi: 29:26

That's good. Those are definitely great friends. And I'm glad that in this world, like, I mean, nowadays, we're saying in the recent years, we're like very more tolerant toward like mental health. I personally don't suffer that I know of any diagnosed, um, uh, mental illness, but I have definitely moments where like, you know, I need to That's good. Keep myself in check in order not to be burned out or to feel into a mild depression and stuff. So like, there's definitely a more tolerant, um, take on the whole mental health, mental health, uh, aspect, but, um, does it happen sometimes to you that, um, people kind of stay away from you because of, you know, um, because of like, uh, they don't know how to deal. We've, uh, they don't know how to react to mental illness. Like they don't know how to, they would rather stay away. Have you ever

Mercedes: 30:28

experienced that? Um, I would say for me, like I have really bad anxiety, so. I'd say in social situations, like I'm, I'm probably not the most, like, I don't know, I don't know the way to phrase it, but like, I'm not the most like sociable person. It's not very easy for me to make friends or like new connections. Um, so I'd say that, like, it definitely impacts my social life. Um, I, I don't know, you know, necessarily about people specifically not, you know, wanting to be friends with me because of my mental illness. But I'd say that because of, of my anxiety, like it does make it very difficult to, to make new friends or to have those new conversations or to, you know, go to some sort of group event where I might meet new people. Um, it can definitely kind of limit my, uh, my social kind of connections. Yeah,

Benyi: 31:19

I see, but that's, you know, what's funny. You're here doing a podcast and you're doing fine. So like, um, yeah, that's kind of surprising because like, I don't see your anxiety right now on, uh, Yeah. Um, now let's, uh, go deeper in that conversation. What's your approach to that when it comes to like, uh, intimate relationships, like deeper, like, you know, like looking for a partner and stuff.

Mercedes: 31:51

Yeah. Um, I'm at the point where, like, I'm very, you know, upfront about, um, yeah, like that I, that I deal with mental health concerns. Yeah, I'm very selective about, yeah, who I, you know, spend time with. And, um, I would say, yeah, going into the dating world, um, try to be upfront about what I'm looking for as well, because that can be, you know, a point of issues if, you know, you're not necessarily on the same page or looking for the same things. So I try to, you know, if I'm on a dating app or whatever, like put that on my profile, exactly what I'm looking for, like that I'm looking for a longer term relationship. Um, try to, you know, connect with people who are looking for the same thing. And then, yeah, um, when you are dating or hanging out with the person, I guess, um, just trying to be aware of like. You know, is there that connection? Is there not? And trying to be honest with myself about whether there is because I mean, in the past, I might have continued relationships that maybe weren't the best for me. Um, it just because I wanted to be in a relationship or I wanted to have someone. Whereas now I'm a little bit more comfortable being, you know, single if it means that, um, you know, I'll find the right person eventually. So,

Benyi: 33:07

yeah. Um, yeah. That's definitely, uh, um, a problem that I've seen in a lot of people, some that I've interviewed, other people had conversation with, uh, the idea of being alone. People would rather be in a bad relationship than be alone. Uh, basically codependency. Um, do you, or you consider yourself codependent at some point?

Mercedes: 33:31

Um, I'd say I have been in a codependent relationship. Um, I wouldn't consider myself, uh, that anymore. I think, you know, working through therapy and, uh, working on my different, you know, skills and stuff like that and interpersonal skills. I would say that I, I'm not like when I enter into interrelationship these days. Um, I'm much more aware and more careful about, you know, how much I'm depending on a partner and how much I need to, you know, focus on myself and do that self care and take care of myself and not rely on another person for my well being. Um, So, yeah, I'd say at this point. No, but I have definitely been there in my life. Yeah. In the past. Yeah.

Benyi: 34:14

Yeah. Uh, and how, how do you balance now? Um, I mean, because you just said it at the beginning of the interview, you in a phase where you're trying to still get back on the horse of sobriety. Sometimes you have those challenges, I don't know, uh, hiccups, maybe, um, what are the things that you face? Can you give us maybe an example of an episode where that was like hard for you to deal with?

Mercedes: 34:46

Yeah, um, I'd say like last week, I, I had, I think I had had maybe like Maybe 10 ish days of sobriety. And then, um, I, yeah, had, uh, like kind of an episode, a borderline episode, uh, just like a comment that was made that was, uh, kind of hurtful by someone and, um, yeah, just immediately spiraled into that BPE mode of, uh, feeling really triggered and impulsive and. Immediately, you know, went to pour a drink and, um, you know, relapsed and, uh, had had kind of like a binge drinking episode. Um, but, uh, yeah, and kind of, you know, immediately tried to get right back on, you know, the, the sobriety path. So, you know, now I'm at six days, so I'm. Trying to keep going. So, yeah, thank you. Um, so yeah, you know, just kind of taking it one day at a time, like they say. And, um, if there are hiccups or slips, you know, trying to get right back on track as much as possible. So yeah, just kind of trial and error and trying to get, you know, get back on that, on that path.

Benyi: 35:56

Yeah. You know, um, that made me think of this, this I want to hear your opinion on this, you know, like, um, some people, for example, cannot train more than three months together, but like, uh, maybe a month, you know, just a certain period of time, but then they go out for two days, but then they get back on the horse. And in, at least in the, I'm going to take the AA community, but because that's the one I'm a part of, and I've seen that happening, there's judgment passed upon those people who cannot string long sobriety, but Are often back in the room, you know, they will have like one day every three months, but they go, they go on maybe a two day burner max, you know, they don't go, they don't go for like six months and come back, they go for two days, max they come back. I personally don't think there's too much harm to that. Like, because I mean, it's, I believe I'm a, I'm a firm believer in harm reduction. Harm reduction is better than going out and just going on a bender. So, yeah, what's your, what's your take on that? Like, you know, do you believe also in harm reduction?

Mercedes: 37:26

Yes, I do. Yeah, definitely a big component of harm reduction. I think whatever makes sense for that person, it's very individualized. If abstinence is their goal and if that works for them, you know. That's great. If harm reduction is what works for them and that's what their journey is, then that's also great. Um, yeah, I, I would pass any judgment on anyone for having, you know, yeah, like those relapses or slips and then, you know, the fact that they are getting back in those rooms and getting back on that path that shows a lot of strength that, um, That those people are trying, they're trying, you know, they're trying their best, they're doing what they can and, um, you know, that's okay if it's not, it doesn't look quote unquote perfect, you know, like it doesn't have to be a perfect string of sobriety, I'd say, um, yeah, whatever, whatever works on that, for that person, whatever is getting them closer to their goals. Um, I'd say, I'd say, yeah, more power to them. Yeah.

Benyi: 38:25

Yeah, like I agree with you. My only concern when I was thinking about this topic was, um, I, I'm concerned that one might feel, might feel complacent into harm reduction. Like, you know, there might be like, okay, let's take that same, uh, hypothetical, hypothetical person who can only string three months together. I think if they're in the mindset, it's, that, Oh, uh, here's come the third month. I'm going to enjoy my drink. I'm going to come back. I think that's a different mindset than like actually trying your best to go to four, but for some reason you cannot get there, you know, like the intentions are different. So do you, do you understand the difference between those two

Mercedes: 39:19

examples? Yeah, for sure. Um, yeah, it's so complicated. I mean, it's really hard to say, um, Yeah, it's either way there. They're, you know, they're still not drinking every day and they're, and they're making some sort of progress. So I, yeah, it really depends. Whatever feels good, feels good to that person, whatever aligns with their goals or is helping them getting closer to their goals. Um, you know, I, yeah, I, I wouldn't judge them either way with the, with the different mindsets, I would say. Yeah.

Benyi: 39:53

Yeah. Like, um, it's just like, I don't know, like, I'm always curious about, you know. Discerning what people mindset and, you know, I, at the opposite side of that spectrum, you have, um, those who value, uh, the day count, like, you know, the only measure of somebody's sobriety, they can be dickheads, they can be like very terrible person, but they are 48 years and everybody takes the world as a gospel. Um, I have, uh, I have a very good friend to this podcast, Rich. Who I had the chance to talk at his one year anniversary and, you know, we went to rehab together. So I talk about our experience together and I'll talk also about what keeps us sober. But I didn't make it about myself. Right? And there's that old man after the after the meeting. That comes to me is like, Oh yeah, uh, I kind of like your, your, your take, but you know, what was funny also during, during, uh, when I was making my, doing my speech making, yeah, when I was talking, I made eye contact with him several times in the audience and he didn't look happy at all. So like, yeah, yeah. When, when he came to me, he was like, Oh yeah, man, good job talking, but you know, um, Yeah, when you start, you should always talk about your first drink. I'm like, why? Like, This is not, I'm not talking about my story. I'm talking about my friend, Rich Anniversary, and he was like, Oh, yeah, my name is so, so like, I have 48 years and I'm like any, I'm like, yeah, cool, bro. And he asked me, how long do you have? And I'm like, I don't know. I had six months at the time. I'm like, six months is like, yeah, man. Like if you want like a mentor, I'm like, you see, I, my mom, my mom raised me, right? That man was much older, but if he was about my age, I don't know what I would have done. So, yeah, like I was saying, like, you know, the thing in those, uh, people who have a long sobriety, they think they have the gospel in their hand. And that approach was not like, you know, um, what's your experience? Have you ever been in the group of, uh, any fellowship, like a, or anything like that, have you tried those?

Mercedes: 42:19

Um, I have tried 12 steps, I think a couple times it, it didn't really necessarily resonate with me. Um, I was, I was raised religious and, um, I'm not religious anymore. So that kind of aspect of it kind of. Didn't work for me. Um, yeah, I, I do use that group, um, uh, that I mentioned is called reframe. Um, and they have different recovery meetings almost every day on the app. And, um, yeah, so I go, I try to go to those meetings at least once a week. And, um, it's kind of similar to AA, but, um, there's, there's not like any prayers or anything, it's more like focused on neuroscience. And, uh, it's very secular. Um, so people are just like sharing their stories and supporting each other. So it's kind of a similar environment, but. Um, just a little bit more secular. Yeah, yeah,

Benyi: 43:07

yeah. That's true. That is still like very, it's, it's kind itself as being a spiritual program, but it has really just tendencies and I understand how he can push people away because, um, even now. To make it more progressive, um, there is a resistance because, uh, the old school, the old heads, they're like, no, it was done this way in the 1930s, but I'm like, exactly. It was in the 19 fucking 30. So we're like in 2000, something 20, almost 90 years later. Come on, man. Like you need to adapt some few things, right? Um, me personally, uh, I wear my sobriety on my sleeve. So the anonymity part of it is, it's my choice, right? Like I, I disclosed my, uh, my sobriety, my recovery. Um, but like. What I'm even doing right now, you know, having a podcast and you also talking about your issues and stuff for them. It's like a no, no, you know, um, Oh, that brings another topic that I want to do. So like, well, um, I, I enjoy non alcoholic drinks. Uh, you know, uh, I'm more into like, uh, any non alcoholic cocktails than, uh, Uh, non alcoholic beer, like, I'm not a fan of non alcoholic beers because I'm not a fan of something that's very analog of the alcoholic counterpart, like, because I'm like, am I fooling myself? Like. You know, I will have it if there's no other choice, but what's your experience, you personally, with the non alcoholic

Mercedes: 44:53

drinks? Yeah, I, I enjoy like a mocktail or something if I'm going out for like dinner or something, I will have like some sort of mocktail. Um, I find it's, it's, it's kind of like a nice treat. Um, it's not too triggering for me. It doesn't really, you know. Make me on a drink or anything. So yeah, I usually will, if I'm going out with a friend and enjoy, enjoy a mocktail, um, I don't know if it's okay to talk about this, but I, I'm like a medical marijuana patient. So, um, you know, don't, don't, don't want to trigger anyone whose issue is marijuana, but, um, Um, yeah, so, um, yeah, exactly. Yeah, I'm a medical marijuana patient. Um, so I, I like, uh, CBD drinks. I find those very relaxing for me. Um, CBD is something that I find useful on my journey. Um, so yeah, so I, I enjoy like. Uh, like a CBD drink if I'm, you know, want to relax on like a weekend or something instead of drinking. Yeah.

Benyi: 45:53

Yeah. I never try a CBD drink. I don't think I had the chance to. Uh, I'm drink, I drink Calva. Have you ever heard of Calva? No. K A V A. So Kava, it's like a, it's right from a root from the, from the Pacific Islands. And it's a drink that's like very earthy. It's like drinking like dirt, but, um, it has those relaxing properties. Uh, and Kava bars are coming up, at least here in New York City. You have in Long Island, you have like a few of them. Um, yeah, uh, Kava is like, basically the way I see it in the spectrum of stimulants or like spectrum of mind altering stuff. I see it as like the opposite of coffee, you know. It's not something that are going to make you like people drink coffee. People think that coffee, uh, but not a lot of people see coffee has like a mind altering substance, but it is, you know, it gives you, it gives you a boost. It's stimulant, but people are not like, I still drink coffee. I'm not like addicted to it. But kava is on the other side of it. Just other like way it relaxes you, but you still like. Um, how you call it, uh, you're not into, um, you're not like triangle under the influence or anything like that. You still like, it's a, it's a body, uh, it relaxes like your mind, you know, like, it's not like, Oh yeah. Um, but yeah, like, you know, people who want to call themselves sober, even when they smoke marijuana, I give kudos to them, you know, because, and that's another thing also in like the fellowship that I follow for them, it's a, it's a foreign topic, you know, um, um, but it is what it is, like, I don't want to argue with them so much, um, you know, um, I don't know how to say, um, yeah. Whatever keeps you alive at some point, right? And helps you be a better person, in my opinion, is a good path to be, right? Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so what else? Uh, sorry. I forgot what I wanted to ask. Oh, that's okay. Um, yeah. Um, yeah. Uh, so yes, now I remember. So when you go out and you have like those, um, you know, mocktails with your friend. Do you have some time, uh, do you need, do you need to get yourself mentally ready in order to, um, do you play like the, um, the event in your head in order not to relapse or to drink there? What's your, what's your process like when you're ready to go out in a scene where they serve alcohol?

Mercedes: 49:09

Yeah. Honestly, for me, I don't have as much of an issue when I'm out and about or like at an event. Um, I usually will drink like kind of alone, like at home. So for me, if I'm going out and I have in my mind, you know, I'm going to get a mocktail today. Like it's usually not too hard for me to stick to that plan. Um, like I'm able, especially if my friends know that I'm working on my sobriety, I'm like, yeah, I don't want to be drinking around them. I'll show them that I'm working on my goals, but. Yeah. Yeah, I'd say I struggle more when I'm like alone, like with drinking, like kind of at home, more isolated experience. So going out not is not as much of like an issue for me. Um, it's more, you know, being at home, you know, having that, you know, maybe some free time on my hands and then I'm bored and I want to drink like that's more of. Kind of an issue for me. Yeah.

Benyi: 50:01

Yeah. That's interesting. Uh, me at, um, yeah, no, not so much. Like I was, when I was drinking, I was able to drink alone, but when I did stop, I was, you know, I'm, I'm, I think alone is the easy part. Um, Going out, definitely in the early stages, now less, but in the early stage, I needed to play the night in my head first, like, you know, let's say I go to a concert, like, you know, I love house music, so house music is, you know, the scene is littered with drugs, you're going to, so like, I'm like, okay, I'm going to go to this venue, I'm going to see people do drugs, how I'm going to react, I'm going to, I'm going to be offered drugs. How am I going to react? Like, you know, what if the girl is pretty and she gives me drugs? How am I going to react? I need to play those scenarios in my head to make sure that like, I actually check myself mentally and I don't lie to myself. Because the thing I, my issue was that, you know, being, um, being exposed to an, uh, being faced to an, an, an unexpected situation and then having to think right on the fly, you know, you were talking about impulses earlier, I had to deal with those impulses sometime because, uh, I didn't see those coming. And, um, yeah, that was my issue at the beginning of my sobriety when I was trying to get this thing right. Um, how, how does that work for you sometimes when you're like, you know,

Mercedes: 51:47

Uh, getting ready for situations where I might

Benyi: 51:50

be Like that, do you not expect, like, you know, you told us, for example, that like, uh, last week somebody made a comment that was kind of, uh, hurtful and that's what made you, uh, but what are your techniques? Like, what do you try to do when things that are like unexpected happen? Like,

Mercedes: 52:12

yeah, um, I guess. Yeah, it depends. Like, I think a lot of the things that I mentioned, um, you know, either a crisis line or reaching out to my therapist or mindfulness or things like that. Um, yeah, if things kind of go off track, um, yeah, just trying to stay grounded and centered, you know, maybe if it's, it might not even be a meditation, even just taking a few deep breaths and kind of trying to be aware of what's going on and, um, yeah, I, I will also use, um, Like a different, like the app that I mentioned, reframe, they have like a little forum, so, you know, if stuff's going on, you can post a message on there and like get support from other people. Um, there's another app I use called I am sober. They also have like a little forum that you can use. So I might hop on there and, you know, post about what's going on and then get some support or feedback from other people. Um, so I find that can also be helpful. Yeah.

Benyi: 53:11

Yeah, I see. Alright, um, we're reaching the end of this interview, uh, I think now the floor is yours. Is there anything you would like to talk to about before we close or even ask me any question?

Mercedes: 53:24

Yeah, um, so how was like inpatient for you? Like what was, what was that like?

Benyi: 53:31

Oh, it's funny you ask because I said that to somebody else asked me like, uh, two days ago. So I did the 28 days program. Um, the first week is hell, the second and third week go fast. And the last week is hell, uh, not actually hell. No, let me correct that. The first week is hell. The second week is, um, okay. The third, the fourth week is hell for different reasons. So the first week you really don't want to be there like, and you don't have a choice, they take your phone away. Uh, you need to find things to do with your time, like, you know, like, uh, screen wise. I mean, we have TVs and stuff, but having your phone makes not having your phone makes you realize how much depending to the phone you were, um, and you have to deal with your emotions. Um, Yeah, uh, and there's no escape, like the questions are about how you feel, you need to talk to the counselor, you need to tell them your stories, you don't have anything to cope, so like the, the nerve are very raw over there, like, you know, you can headbutt, but you can butt heads, not headbutt, you can butt heads with other, like, you know, people there and stuff. Um, the second and third week, now you used to it, they go fast, they're going to blink and a high, like, you know, uh, you know, most of the people there, you definitely like one of the older patient because you know, the rotation in those things are, it's pretty high. Uh, the fourth week is hard because. Now you see the repetition of the classes by the time you've seen, like, because all the classes, they repeat themselves. So, you know, obviously it makes sense because it's a four week program and most people stay three, two to three weeks in that fridge. So if you get the chance to stay four weeks, you're going to see the same thing that you learned in the first week. And then you're like, ah, now it tests your discipline to stay still and not be upset because you're watching videos you already seen, you're listening to speeches you already heard, the speakers are the same, you know, and The most dreadful thing is like the final day when you're about to leave and they give you back your phone. And I remember turning my phone back on, but waiting for solely 30 minutes before even opening, um, you know, uh, unlocking the phone and looking, you know, because I was so used now not to have my phone. I was like, that little cube, man, that little rectangle is going to ruin my life. Um, but yeah, you know. It's like, yeah, it was basically now I need to go out because like by the fourth week, you realize that you were in a safe environment, protected from everything outside, and it's a little bit dreadful to know that you have to go back out there and then face your demons, you know, like,

Mercedes: 56:38

yeah. Wow. Yeah. It's cool to hear a little bit about your journey too.

Benyi: 56:43

Yeah, it was, it was, it was, I can kind of say it was fun. Like, I don't like rehab and that was my second rehab. I went to rehab twice. Um, yeah. So, yeah. I mean, there are times it's like taking, um, a bad tasting medicine, but that is necessary for you basically.

Mercedes: 57:04

Yeah, absolutely.

Benyi: 57:05

Absolutely. All right. Thank you for asking. That's funny. Of course. Yeah. All right, guys. Um, anything else?

Mercedes: 57:16

Um, I would just say, you know, to anyone that's listening, um, you know, like we were talking about, um, you know, harm reduction is. is okay too. And wherever you're at on your journey, you know, as long as you're working towards your goals and, um, are aligned with, you know, those goals, then, um, you know, more power to you and, you know, good luck on your journeys.

Benyi: 57:39

Okay. All right. Uh, thank you, Mercedes, for being the guest of, uh, Starway to Redemption and guys, I will see you guys for the conclusion. Bye. All right, all right, all right. This concludes episode 49 of Stairway to Redemption. Thank you a lot to Mercedes for being a guest, uh, uh, to this episode and for being very insightful, um, on her take on sobriety. Um, yeah, uh, I would like to apologize guys for being sporadic with the episode. Uh, I know I said every two weeks, but he hasn't been consistent yet. Like I said, in my Instagram posts, I'm still being, uh, adjusting myself to my new schedule and everything that I need to know that I have going on in my life. Nothing dramatic, just, you know, need to, um, manage my time better, basically. Uh, yeah, I may have something for to announce next week, but I would rather work on it much like a little bit more before I can see if I can make it happen. Uh, but it goes along having our first, uh, live episode. So stay tuned for that. And, um, yeah, guys, as usual supporters on, uh, Patreon and on, uh, social media. And I will see you guys in two weeks. Bye.