Special Episode: Round Table 4 (End of 2023)

Benyi: 0:05

Hi, my name is Benny Johnson. As some of you know, I've been struggling with addiction. However, I decided to change my life and went into recovery. I started this podcast 90 days clean and I want to take you along in my journey. What does lie ahead of me? Let me be frank. I do not know. Will I ever drink again? I do not know. This is how Stairway to Redemption was born. It is my search for answer in a real time process of what is going to work for me. It is then my aspiration to help you figure out what is going to work for you. It is our journey together. All right, all right, welcome back to Stairway to Redemption. This week we have a special episode, roundtable episode number four. I think it's appropriate knowing that this is the end of the year. Uh, I'm joined with the usual suspect, uh, Katie here and Rich. Hey, what's up? How you guys doing? Uh, so yeah, we gonna, you know, talk about state of mind, address, our view on the past year, the podcast, uh, You know, what, uh, yeah, we're in the podcast, uh, also talk about what stance we had early on last year in our recovery that we might, we still stand on, or we might, you know, have different opinions about. And finally, we're going to close with, uh, what are we looking forward next year and yeah, so let's start with Katie, Katie, how are you doing? I'm all

Katie: 2:07

right. Um, I guess this year, if I could sum it up, I've been having like a midlife crisis this year. I don't know. And I kind of is a midlife crisis because that's, you know, I'm 37. So I'll be lucky if I this is my live life crisis. Um, but I don't know, I just, I feel like, feel like my identity has been all shifting around and stuff like that. I'm becoming like afraid of things, like I'm like my mortality and stuff like that in a way that I've never felt before. Um, I don't like it, but I feel like it's like I'm becoming like more, um, grounded in my experience or whatever instead of just kind of floating around doing what I wanna do. Um. That's pretty much it. You're just thinking and thinking about this constantly. That's what's going on with

Benyi: 2:51

me. All right. Well, we're going to expand on that. I mean, if you later, but like, Rich, what about you? How are you doing?

Rich: 3:00

I, like, oh, man, this year has been what is strange. Wild trip. It's been just, I mean, it's crazy. Just everything that's gone on from bad to good. And, um, well that not this year's all been good, but I'm saying I'm thinking back to, because I just hit 17 months sober. So I was thinking back to when I started rehab, which was July of 22. Like, it's weird, I was telling you the other day, I feel like I'm 36. Because I'm 56. But just because of my mindset, and like, I finally come to a realization, I wasted, WASTED 20 years of my life. Like, I like, and I don't know if everybody has that same feeling, but for me being older, I was like, where the hell did 36 to 56 go? And, and I was like, I know, drinking and fun and all of this and you know, but I, and it's weird because now that I'm getting going to the gym, I'm back in the gym finally. After a 20 year hiatus and, and Benny got me, you got me, Benny, you got me there and started with the boxing and the training and the not drinking and just, I don't know, life is good. And I do think like, like Katie, like of mortality, but then I just, I don't know, I just try to snap out of it because I have mortality in front of me every single day because my father's 85. Two, my mom's 85 and it's weird. It's great, but it's weird because I see them getting older, like, like right in front of my eyes, like my sisters. They don't see it as much because I live with them, but I see, like, things that they can't, so, in essence, I see things that they can't, what they could do and what they can't, and I'm like, to myself too, it's like, and so it's like, constantly around me, you know, but I feel good personally, like, I, I was telling my mother, I was joking with her, I was like, Mom, I feel like I'm 36. I'm like, you know what? I might get married. Who knows? I've never been married And my, and my mother don't. And my mother looks at me dead in the face and she goes, are you drinking again? That's funny.

Katie: 5:19

I have the same thing though. I, I live with my mom and that's part of what's been happening too. I'm watching her age. Yeah. And so I'm seeing like the aging process like happen in front of me. And I feel it happening with me too, you know, not obviously at the same level, but I'm, yeah, I'm constantly facing like my mom's mortality and then that's going on to me. And then, you know, the same exact thing. I'm like, wow, what did I, I guess for me, it's like 15 years. I'm like, what did I just do? Most of my life has been in addiction or fighting it or whatever. Like that's majority of my life is that, you know, like, so what's, what am I doing from here? You know, like, who am I, what am I, you know? And I just, I guess I never really looked at it like that. Like, wow, you spent like most of your life, that's what you've been doing. Like, you know, like is, is this, so. You know, and I've part of it is actually it's like I've been miserable kind of that whole time. Like I've spent most of my life being miserable or trying to escape misery. And I just don't want to live like that anymore. So it's kind of like I'm starting this journey of figuring out how to just be like, I guess, content. I mean, I've always said that I just want to be happy, but like, I really have no ambitions right now. I'm just like, I just want to be okay. I just want to be healthy. And I know like everybody says that, but like, I'm really feeling that now. I'm like, wow, I'm lucky too, because other people don't have the things that I have.

Rich: 6:31

So that was the biggest thing just this last year, getting sober and not even doing it. I mean, I was blessed. I had money saved and what, and I have renewal commissions and whatever coming in. So I didn't really have to work, but I could concentrate on my sobriety. But you know, that was, that was really tough. You know, I had to do that. And I feel now. Like, finally, the last from, like, October. Cause, like, I do insurance and Medicare. And enrollment starts October to December, and I really dove in and got, and that really was like, when I used to drink a lot, when I did well, I had, I did well, I partied well, when I did bad, so it was like a testing ground, and like, you know, I did well, there were some rough points, you know, whatever, and, but I didn't go to the bottle, which was good, and that was like a big change for me, where like, if I didn't get that sale, I would like, Mm, go get a bottle of Jack. Be like, all right, that'll make it feel better. You'll go look, but this time it's just like you get and like the scheduling and I mean, it was like a really, like almost like, I was gonna say something, I'll tell you afterwards because it was totally un, it was totally politically, it was totally my God. No, it was totally politically incorrect. So I'm gonna just not, I'll tell you guys afterwards when we shut the tape off I'm excited, but I found myself and like really. You know, you know, like the whole thing about falling in love with yourself, I did and it was like, you know, and, and, and that's part of it because once that happens, then people around you feel it. Like when I go and call for AA, people feel it.

Benyi: 8:16

No, I mean, I totally agree with you, you know, uh. Me, myself, like this year, like, you know, understanding yourself and being self aware. I would use that word a lot. I feel like being self aware of the feeling that you know, are feeling at the moment, whether it's anger or anxiety or like, you know, even happiness. I, I'm not looking for happiness because happiness is fleeting. It comes and goes. I'm looking for, like you say, contentment, you know. And being aware of my emotions, man, like is, I mean, it's, it's, I was, I don't think I was bad before when I was in addiction. Being aware of my emotions is just like, I rely on some specific, like emotions too much. I did not had a border range, right? I didn't allow myself to feel, for example, sadness, that kind of stuff, you know, I was running on anger, a lot motivations, you know, to like, uh, accomplish something on like, um, you know, those and feeling or sometimes, you know, waking up and feeling anxious for no reason and having to deal with it and not go to the bottle or like drugs for it. It was like, you know, especially like. I started the step work with my sponsor over the summer. And recently I did, I had to do the list, the inventory list and relieve some memories that last week I had to do the fifth step, like, uh, told me to, uh, uh, to, to somebody else, the nature of our wrongs and things that I've done, man, it was rough, but like after he was, you know, freeing me from that, uh, I'm at peace now, you know, I'm unshakable, like my, my, at the moment, you know, I'm not talking like I'm pure forever now, but at the moment I'm unshakable, like there are things that happens, man, like, especially not now, like I do security at Target, like people, I see people, people interacting with people all time now. I love myself because they're like, oh man, there was some situation I would have knocked out somebody right now. Mm-Hmm. We're like, I don't even feel the anger or the need to retaliate. I feel more like compassion. Mm-Hmm. Like, I can see where somebody comes from, you know, like I can take it on me to like, I don't want to say be the better man. But to be more tolerant and take a little bit more of that pain and be like, Hey, okay, calm down, you cool. Like, you know, this is going to pass, you know, to cool their heads. Because like, I know exactly if I escalate where that's going to be. And, you know, and going back to like, um, uh, the kickboxing, kickboxing help a lot, man. Like the gym helped a lot to a point where like. I need to watch myself and not be, I'm very protective of that environment because it helps me a lot. And we have a circle of friends over there, the kickboxing crew. And we're just at a holiday party, like just to screw. And now I'm in a state where. You know, like, unfortunately, like, we even talked about it before, uh, what the community, what a community is, what the purpose is of a certain community, their ritual, like, you know, so like, for example, the gym, the community is the people who go to the gym, the ritual is to work out. And the place, the, the, the place of worship is the location itself. And like, sometimes I get upset at people with their tripods. They're like, you know,

Rich: 12:12

like, you would get a kick out of it. Yeah. If you came over there, there are women and men there, they set up and it's like, almost like. You're going to the gym dressed up, you know, like in the, like sweatpants and sweatshirt and there are all these people carrying these like suitcases, you know, I'm being sarcastic, but it's just like, it's like, it's so ridiculous, like where they, they tell the story about what happened with that woman with us at the gym. Oh

Benyi: 12:39

yeah. Oh yeah. We're working out. So we had to step louder. You know, like a ladder that you put on the floor to, like, jump in it or like, you know, like, uh, more fit exercise, right? So I was helping Rach with his step punch, step to punch. And the library takes about half the space of what the boxing area is. And we got approached by one of the trainer who was like, Uh, do you guys mind moving the ladder a little bit? I need to shoot my video. When she had the other half of Of that area for herself, like, I mean, like the, the air is pretty big, like it should not have been an issue, but what I, I mean, what did you say? We say like, yeah, sure. Like, and she didn't even use the space because she's found another space. Better. So there's another room in that gym where they took a half

Rich: 13:35

the kind of wanted to just be like, by not to cut you off, but be by herself, even though we were like in a share with her, she wanted to like, have like the spotlight on her filming herself. And that's where he's saying the sacred space. Cause we go there, I go there to work and like, Someone comes into that and like, there was this couple the other day in between working out together in between sets to kiss and each other. And I'm just like,

Katie: 13:58

Oh, sometimes like my alone time. If

Rich: 14:02

that's

Katie: 14:02

when it is, you can tell I'm getting old because as you're saying that, I'm like, Oh, these kids with the social media, I didn't do that back when I, you know, it's just like, I feel like I'm starting to get at that point where I'm looking at stuff and I'm like, I don't, I don't, I've also been off of social media. I've been off of it. And I, which is amazing. It's like one of the best things I've ever done for myself. And then I kind of dip back into it again. And then I went out, taught myself my

Rich: 14:28

lesson. There's a time and place for everything. And that's why we said like, yeah, you could do, you could film yourself. You can, if you're doing it for like an instructional, but other people, and then, but some of these people, it's just like, you're not even working out. Yeah. The one, the one girl came in and it was like. She looked great. And I was like, Benny, do you always, does a woman always wear that much makeup to go to the gym? She had the best, like it was perfect makeup. Then I was like, it's not working out.

Benyi: 15:00

And he has to do with intentions and I don't, you know, we kind of doing a little bit of people inventory because like, I feel like that's why I'm saying like this place, that place is so sacred for me to my recovery that like I found myself. Despising slightly starting

Katie: 15:17

to despise slightly. That's like,

Benyi: 15:19

uh, I'm sorry. Yeah, I'm starting to find myself liking less and less the people who are there with not the right intentions. And my, my, my emotion is to be like gatekeeping that space. And I'm trying to watch it and I'm aware of it. That's why I'm saying being self aware of your emotion. I saw something that I really, I'm really grateful. And that I learned this year and I know these feelings going to be exact submitted by the New Year's resolutionists. They're coming. Oh my God. They're coming. So I need to set myself. I'll be like, Hey, you know, among the newest resolution is even if it's. 2 percent of them who stays and become real gym members and stuff. Why not? That's a win. You know, I don't want to be like, Oh, get off my lawn or get off my, my fucking gym at my boxing bag.

Rich: 16:22

It's a sacred space that I agree with you. It got me and it's helped me like, I have to do this in the morning if I don't do it in the morning. Like we go every morning and if I don't do that, I just feel lost. And because it just gets me in going and like, it took me a while, like before I actually joined the gym was two months ago, like I had joined planet fitness, but just to like, whatever, but then I would not to whatever, but it was like close. It was in Merrick. But it wasn't that, you know, but I had to get my mind straight once it got straight that I was like with many and I don't like people that mess with that. Yeah, I'm going there and it's like, you know, and you don't want to let too many people in. But, you know, you're trying to be nice at the same time as I was

Katie: 17:08

coming in here today. I was like, I need to, I heard the word aerobics and obviously being like an 80s kid. That's that's exercise to me is like aerobics. And I really need to do something like that. Like, I really. for my mental health. I really, really, really need to start exercising. I, um, I, I don't know because I never, I would, I don't do exercising to maintain weight or lose weight because I've done that in the past. And as soon as my schedule shifts, I gain like literally a hundred pounds. I'm graduating right now. That's happened. And so I, I, I kind of had it in the back of my mind. I worked a lot on, um, my diet. But I need to do something with exercise. I need, I need those endorphins and the dopamine routine and something. I mean, I really, really need to start doing that. And it just made me feel lame. I'm like, Oh, after new year's, I'm like, Oh man, I'm one of those people. But I'm thinking I want to get my mom, my aunt to do ropes in the

Benyi: 17:55

living room. Well, then I get to, you know, like. Speaking of numerous resolution is you're gonna have the, the dry January people, oh, who's gonna do dry January? And they'll be like, oh, I'm gonna give out alcohol for month. Oh, this is, and I'm not trying to get upset in advance, I'm just trying to anticipate what. Some conversation going to be, and you're going to have some people who are going to compare themselves to what it is to be really sober just for, because they're not drinking for a month. And I'm like, huh, how am I going to react? When somebody be like, Oh, this is what it feels like not to drink. And I'm like, bro, you, you, you, you not drinking for a month. You know, you're going to drink in January, February. Sorry. I mean, I like your enthusiasm, but don't compare yourself

Katie: 18:48

to, you know, it's a pink cloud. Yeah. It's hard. Cause I feel like I'm coming from a place with people where I'm not like trying to bring them down. I, I just know how painful it was for me when I would get like really enthusiastic. The first time that I like got sober. I was so like, oh, this is amazing. This is the best feeling ever. And like the, when that went away was like one of the most crushing feelings I've ever felt in my life. Yeah. It's almost like I wanna warn people like, Mm-Hmm. listen, you gotta have to, like, there's a wa like a wave that you're riding right now. Yeah. But it's everyone else's, you know? But you're, that mind, you don't state of mind. Like you don't even listen to people's sometimes.

Rich: 19:18

The other night was amazing. We went out with the whole, the people from the boxing class. Yeah. And we were in a bar when we left. We were like, if we told, and Benny goes like this, and I agree with him, we're like, if we told anybody that we were in a bar for four and a half hours, had a ton of fun, and didn't drink. They would be like, we got to talk, we got to talk, what the hell were you doing, you know, and it's like, and no, and, and it's like, just my past drinking for, and, but it was amazing, and I didn't even feel, like before it was, it flew by, you know, I didn't even feel, like what, I went up to the bar to get coffee, or, Ginger ale. Yeah. Coffee. And they charged me. They, they were pissed at me. Oh, yeah. They, they, they charged me three 50 at coffee because I wasn't ordering hour. I, I don't know. I don't know. But I got a, that they like you, that I'm not trying, they, but I got a feeling when I was like, two coffees that they, I was like, no.'cause they had a brew, a new coffee. Oh, that, that, and then it was like three 50 each. I was like,

Benyi: 20:21

little.

Rich: 20:23

But anyhow, the, the point being is that. I didn't feel it. I didn't know what to expect because I've been out to bars or restaurants with family and you feel and I'm like content with my sisters and my not content but like relaxed and my parents and this and that and also I got to keep accountability. I can't be doing anything stupid in front because I'm like, yeah, this was the first time where it was like out. Nobody's going to know, well, they would know, but, but, but it felt, it felt really good to go there and not, and I didn't even feel that like, Hmm, maybe have a drink, you know, and I saw people drinking and I wasn't even like

Katie: 21:07

my favorite sobriety things is, and you know, I've, I've had ups and downs, but I have not drank for four over four years and it's so relieving when I'm at a restaurant, you With family and friends. I was always the only one doing any of this shit. Like, everybody else was like normal people. And, um, like I, the entire meal would be, my brain would be overwhelmed with, okay, when can I order a drink again? It's not going to be weird. When can I order a drink again? What can I get? What can I get? Like what has the most alcohol on it? When can I order the drink again? Cause they're going to be, you know, I have to make sure they're not like, wait, why are you ordering a drink already, Katie? So I would just be completely focused on having a drink. When can I get a drink? I wouldn't even be listening to people. I'd be thinking like, okay, it's 10 minutes. Can I have another drink? Like, I feel so free from that when I go to a restaurant and I see wine there. Like I actually am like, wow, thank God. Like, I feel so like, unlike lightened or unburdened by the fact that I don't have to worry about that now. It was like, I it's because that was, it's just a good, uh, microcosm.

Rich: 22:00

We were playing a game. We were like. And so we were like, well, how much drinks did they start acting weird? We were like, no, man. Like

Benyi: 22:09

it, it was, it was actually kind of amusing to see people shift from like,

Rich: 22:17

because we know the let people

Benyi: 22:18

being like so sober to like, oh yeah, this guy's sauce now. Like, you know, because you have a conversation with them. The first five minute, everything, the level. Then you come back like 15 minutes later, like, Oh, that's a little shift. Then after an hour,

Rich: 22:35

they're like, belly rich. Guys, you guys

Katie: 22:42

get so like groovy.

Benyi: 22:47

Yeah, man. Like it was, it was

Rich: 22:49

funny, man. But that was, you know, the years were good that, that, like, to me, that. Was like the culmination, you know, just to be like, went this far with the boxing that you got to meet the people didn't know what to, and like, we don't, we agree not to wear the AA bands, but I don't care. I'll tell anybody I'm not, I'm an alcoholic and that night we like how, you know, they're like, why is this? All guys hang out was like 33. How did the two Oh yeah.'cause people were like, they're like, well, how did the two? And then finally we were just like, yeah, come on. We, we, we met in rehab, so we were like, we met in, and then that was just, it just came out smooth. Yeah. And, and people were, oh, that's cool. And they respected us for it. Yeah. I

Katie: 23:38

think people, I've noticed that, I mean, ever since that, I think also I have a different time with of it because I'm a woman, so it's just, it's. Like those stereotypes get thrown at us in different ways, but more and more it's just like people, I think it's just respected for when you're sober, when you're not drinking, like people's just, it's not like, Oh wait, why aren't you? Like, I mean, it's just, we're getting older too, but like, it's just like a respectable thing. Like it's not looked down upon. I don't get that vibe from anybody. Like when you're just like, I'm not sure. I don't know if I heard my whole story. They would not be looking down on me, but. It's just people, it's, uh, I think people look at it like a, you know, it's an esteemable act that, you know, it's, it's not, I don't think it has a negative connotations that maybe people had to work with in the past as much.

Benyi: 24:17

No, also like, I think the, the, there was that attitude and also in correlation with like, we are not preaching. We're not like telling you, Oh, how well is bad for you. You should consider to do twice January or anything like that, or just like. You know, there was even that couple that like was a little bit on, you know, had a little bit too much drinking and ask us, Oh, you guys know each other. So yeah, we do. And we didn't say that we were in a, because we thought that like at a moment that would make them too self aware of their drinking.

Rich: 24:53

And we were like, yeah, we, yeah, we don't want to,

Benyi: 24:54

no, like, we're not going to be like, oh yeah, you guys are

Rich: 24:59

sus, but you know,

Benyi: 25:01

yeah. So, you know, it just with the intentions and like people respect them. We, we find ourselves a good community in that kickboxing, um, class of people who, you know, we all different,

Rich: 25:15

but, and it was like, yeah, people were good. They're, you know, even forget about the drinking, you know, they were, they're good people. And that's, what's helped me. That class has been like my temple. Well, I'm not Jewish, but you know, my church, whatever has been that, you know, where it's like sacred, you know, and it's like, I walk in there and it's like, you know, it's like,

Benyi: 25:39

and this is also what I was personally looking for. Or something like that, that was not necessarily died with. AA because, or any like recovery group, you know, don't get me wrong. I'm grateful for what AA does, but sometimes the fellowship or, you know, it's like, all right, guys, we all know we have a problem with alcohol. What else do we have in common? What else like, you know, makes like, I don't want to go to the diner and just talk about fucking like, you know, like who. What did Tether do? Like who relapsed? Who stayed in? Who like, that's not, that's not what I'm looking for. So that's why sometime I'm like, people, what do you think? I don't want to call them boring, but maybe I'm the boring one. Who knows?

Rich: 26:28

It seems like the people that we want, for whatever reason, they gravitate toward us. Like everybody that I hang out with isn't like that. They are, and we just, I stay away, but like, you know, our friend, Edwin, Edwin is cool. And we go to him with him in the morning and that was just, that's just flowed nicely. And, and, you know, it's not like some of the, where it's like, wow, what about him? And we can actually talk to him about the Yankees, about, you know, football, whatever. You know, it's

Katie: 27:03

like gossip is always that it's people who are boring and don't have anything else to talk about. Like, if you can't, like, if you have the people that you guys all know are what you had in common, and if you can't, like, throw it in a comment or something like that about something else, or you have enough, like, or if you're opinionated or whatever, like. It's just so easy to have this reference point of this person. So people wind up gossiping that I don't even think people actually care or want to gossip. They like literally don't have anything else to talk about. Like, I know that happens with me with people, but just people just talking about other people and I'm like, I don't understand why. I just, I guess it is. It's a point people are boring or they're afraid to be themselves. You know, I think what's the difference. I don't know, but I feel like people are afraid to be themselves and. You know, so I guess it also an A. A. A lot of things is like, I don't know, we're in sucking being like teenagers a little bit, right? Like, when we stop drinking. I always say for me, like, I felt like I went backwards. I think it's just when you're an addict or an alcoholic, like, you get selfish in a way that a teenager is like, it's all about you. So it's kind of like that environment. It's almost like high school or something again. Yeah. Certain groups. Mine isn't like that. Everyone's like a plumber or something like that.

Rich: 28:09

And it, it can be, it can be annoying. Like, how are you doing? I'm doing great. Really? Are sure? Yeah, I'm sure. Are you sure? You're really doing great. Yeah. I Trust me, I'm doing well. They want, well, like I was joking with Betty. I was like, I want to go to someone and say, eh, they're really bad, but you gotta help me. You I, me excited Yeah.

Benyi: 28:29

Yeah. If you go, for example, if we had told those. People that were at the bar for four hours and a half, like we've. Friends from our kickboxing class were like,

Katie: 28:40

Oh my God,

Benyi: 28:42

why you put yourself in such a position? I think

Katie: 28:46

there's like, but I'm learning to is with recovery is that there's things that are like rules are, you know, the suggestions that are really like, well, yeah. But it's like, I get it. Almost all of those things are like the safest thing you can do. Like, if you want to, like, that is the safest method. Don't get into a relationship. Don't go out of the car. Don't do these things. This is like the ultimate safest things you can do, but like, you gotta live your life too. And some people are stronger in other areas than other people. Like it's like, And then so I'm like, all right, so maybe it's really safe if I don't go to this bar with these people, but then like, I'm going to be lonely and not have these people as friends, and that's going to make me want to drink because I'm alone, you I could just hang out at the bar and not even wanted to drink, like, it's all,

Rich: 29:24

I agree with you. And I think it's also timing when I first came out of rehab, I don't want to be going to a bar that now it's 17 at the top, you know, 16, 17 months. Yeah, I feel comfortable and even before that, but like the first couple of months, it's like, I'm not going to be doing something stupid like that. Well, not stupid, but you know, put myself myself in harm's way. And, but there are other people in there that are like, Oh, I can't go. I still can't go to a Yankee game after 20 years. I'm like, well, that makes me like, I'm like,

Katie: 29:57

why? I think he said to that person. And it's cause it's like, you're like, you're still like, you're still living your life based on your. Like, you know, still basing whatever you haven't like worked on yourself to a point where you're not like, you can't trust yourself around it. And like I said, there's always, you know, it's, it's the safest thing to do. And you can't be like, Oh, I'm fine. Or, you know, you shouldn't be like willy nilly and like, you know, I don't agree with like recover, but I mean, I know people that, yeah, they'll be like, they've been in for 20 years and they won't do certain things on, um. I just, I know some guys have been sober for like a couple of years and he goes to like three meetings a day or still like every day. That's like weird. Like I, I'm concerned about this person because like, again, like if that routine gets thrown off, then who

Rich: 30:40

knows? And like, my sister was like, do you think that's really good? When I was telling her we were going to the bar. And I was like, maybe when I was first over, no, but I'm like, now I'm like, also, I want to actually see, yeah, I'm like, I'm not trying to like test fate, but I want to, because I know if say I was there and after like 20 minutes, I was like, I would have been like, Benny. You want to hang out? Go ahead. I'm going to be in the car, you know, or do, or do some, because that I would definitely not stay there if I'm like, uh,

Katie: 31:15

you had to be at a point where like you are at a point right now where you would rather be sober than not a long time. It takes you a while to cut down a long time to get there. Like I knew I had to be sober, but I did not want to be sober. And now. And I think that's where the safety comes in, where you can trust yourself. It's like, no, I, I want to be sober. Like it's, I'm not, I'm not like white knuckling yet. Like how I'm living my life today. How I woke up today is how I want it to be. I don't want to be drunk, you know, and you know, until you get there, that's why I have these people who are still going like four meetings a day and I can't be at a baseball game. Like, I'm like, so I feel like you don't actually want to be sober, like on a certain level, like you're still like, you know, being pulled over there.

Rich: 31:50

Yeah. Because it's like, and I feel I use AA to the point where I'm using it as a, as a, as a, uh, I don't know how the proper terminology, but I'm using it when I need it. Not like all the time and it's like, I've gone a while now. No, no, I went last Thursday. No, no, we went to the beach. Oh, no, I missed. We missed that. But I went last Thursday. I was at a meeting, but you know, I haven't gone every day because I haven't. I've been busy. So that's good. I'll make him up. That's what you're supposed to do. People like some people. Oh, where are you? But I'm like, well. Make money or don't, you know, and it's like, or to have a, and it's not like not have a life by going to AA, but it's like, you know, I got to live the way I got to live. It's

Katie: 32:45

like that, that thing they say, it's like, if anything you put in front of your sobriety, you'll lose or whatever. And it's like, a lot of people don't have the luxury of being able to put their sobriety first. You know, I've actually not lost people. It was at my whole family. I depend on, but like some people. They don't get to do that. Like they have to go to work, like they have to do this. They have to, you know, and it's like, it's almost like they don't want it as much or something. And that's why I almost feel grateful. I talked to my, about this with people in AA, like, you know, I, I have like a quote unquote, low bottom, right. And, uh, some people have. High bottoms, and I just think it's like sometimes a low bottom is a gift because it's like what else somebody all right Yeah, what else is gonna take from me? I was like, what what am I afraid of doing right now? Everything is gone or isn't you're like, you know, you're so functional. How do you balance that? Like I didn't like didn't have to balance anything It's like you have nothing else to do right now or this, you know I think it's really hard and even this time around when I relapse this has been a lot harder To like balance my life and like stay sober and like that, you know, it was just a lot, it just, I couldn't focus on it 100 percent the way that I did, you know, back then, so it's just, it's everybody, it's about adapting and that is, there's no one size fits all thing, which I think is kind of what. A is grading against people as one, doing things like that. It's like this

Rich: 34:00

is for everybody and I've been using it as a tool at an instrument. Mm-Hmm. to help me. That's what I meant. Instead of, you know, like people, oh, you gotta go every single day. It's like, well, you know, yeah, that's good. In the beginning. And I did 180 and 180 in the beginning, like I needed it those first six months. But now I've grown and I think and I'm not trying to be preachy or saying I know it all because I definitely don't That's why I say I'm grateful for everything. I've learned but I think a lot of times, you know, it comes off that way You know that you know, you're not getting it. Okay, you can recite the whole big book. Yeah from page 1 to 164 Perfectly. You know, every single word, but you don't practice what you preach.

Katie: 34:48

Also, almost always the people that like, are not nice. They're not kind of like, not like those people in like business meetings that are arguing with people and stuff. And I always say business meetings, like the most on AA thing, everyone, like this is going completely against AA, like every single day. And those are the people who, and those are the people that I think have the loudest voice about AA, which is unfortunate because. I think there's some people come into it and they hear these people doing that and you got to read 164 pages tonight or whatever you're not gonna like those the people that jump on people and scare people away, but I think that there's are people. There are people out there that need people like that.

Rich: 35:22

Oh, no. Yeah. See, I think you got that. You got a formula and that's what they preach and you got to do this and do this and and that'll work, but there are other people like me, Danny, you, where it's like, okay, we can kind of not do our own thing because then people are like, oh, well, now it's rich as AA. No, it's not rich as AA. I'm just learning to how to adapt. To use AA to my advantage.

Katie: 35:54

We've all been in rehab too. That's actually, that's another like whole thing.

Rich: 35:58

I think the rehab plus the outpatient. Yeah, exactly. What

Katie: 36:01

do you mean by that? You're in rehab, you have a whole other level of programming that we've absorbed that other people I almost feel like it's like there is some kind of like I'm not looked down on, but like, I'm not as like legit as I had, like I was in rehab. I didn't just like people like, yeah, I just, I just did AA and I just, that's all that I got. You know, old timer people, obviously it's like somehow I've sullied, like I've muddled the experience. Well, someone

Rich: 36:24

said that to, they said that to me once after I spoke and they were like, Well, I didn't have the privilege to go to, to go to rehab, and I was like, I was like, I was like paying 5, 000 out of pocket. Is that privilege?

Katie: 36:39

I mean, I think like I was saying, it's true that you haven't, like some people can't even do that, but coming at it from that angle, like, well, I'm stronger because I just did it. I didn't need to go to rehab. I couldn't. So. I did it this, I did it like the real, authentic

Rich: 36:51

way. And honestly, you know, then you get into those fights. Well, I'm a real recovering alcoholic. You, you're fake because you went through. Yeah. But

Benyi: 36:59

then, yeah, you have, you have like people who want to, uh, how to say like, uh, stratify the different levels of sobriety of the real, and you know, that's why like. Even Rich said, Rich said something earlier that I want to return to, like, you know, he wanted to know how he would feel also if he was at the bar and that's where, like, I disagree with some of, like, the idea of, like, you don't need to test yourself. I'm like, no. So certain point you need to, you have to, because how the fuck do you know where if you're still in a recovery mindset or you know, addiction mindset, how the fuck will you know, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not also telling that, you know, go do something that will be super risky, but you need to know. Like, because even I was even reading or listening to this Shaolin monk who says like that, you run, people run a risk when they are living too much into self affirmation, uh, like, you know, self affirmation, uh, holistic to say like, because you living too Too much in it and not trying to test yourself regularly on what you learn may might lead you to live in a dream state where you think that, you know, or that you are that strong, but in reality, you don't understand what you're doing, or like, you're not as strong as you think you are. And we see a, like a lot people like that, you know. Outside of a, just take the people who are into like, Oh, the whole mindfulness business, new mean new year. Oh, I'm going to this retreat. I'm going to these, uh, you know, some stuff, but they do it having all those experiences. But when it's time to sit down. And apply and have an introspection of be like, okay, am I self aware of the things that I'm learning, you know, of when I'm in a situation where I should use the stuff that I've just learned, am I using it? And then you don't know how many people we know are like, okay, yeah, now I'm living my best life. The best version of me is like, you know, what's

Katie: 39:19

funny is that's exactly what I've discovered towards the end of this year. Like how many times have I talked about my family? I'm like, so grateful for my family, my family, my family. And I have, you know, this whole mindset of I'm, you know, I'm a better person and all this other stuff and I, I don't know, I can't even remember like when it dawned upon me and I'm like, I haven't treated my family like garbage, like absolute garbage because I've always treated my family like garbage, like, so, but this new person that I am is supposed to not be doing that and I just fell right into it. And I, it's just terrifying, like how I did not realize that, like, I look back out and I'm doing all of these things and doing like, okay, I'm doing mindfulness, I'm doing this and, you know, I'm going out and helping all these people with AA, you know, everyone's like, oh, Katie knows all these things and my family, I just, I'm like, not, I'm Like, I don't know, I remind myself so much of my dad, because everyone would be like, your dad's so nice. And I'd be like, what are you talking about? Like, that's me. And I'm just, I'm owning up to it, man. It's terrifying that you, that I could have spent the rest of my life like that. Cause I'd say my mom's older and I have a lot of resentment with my mom that I was working on and stuff. And I think actually a lot of anxiety that I was having throughout this whole year was that inner conflict and I realizing it, but I'm trying to be this better person. And I'm trying to do all these things and like something kept. Like pulling at me and it's like, you're not doing this with your family, like your mom and you're not, you know, I'm like people were walking on eggshells around me, which made sense when I first, it was getting sober and they're probably, and I'm sure it stayed that way. Cause they're like, well, she's doing okay. You know, she's we'll just let her do whatever. And, um, yeah, so I, even I got caught up in that. I did not even realize it like how, because it's just, if you don't examine it, if you don't test yourself, you're not examining it, you can tell yourself all these things and these are my values and this is what I believe, but. You can really delude yourself with that. I, I, I, it is really, and I really thought I was a person that was like, I really. Would not be like that. And I, I hate delusions and everyone should be self aware. Yeah.

Benyi: 41:09

Delusion is the word. Yeah. People start being delusional because they don't, they live in that fantasy world where the thing that they could accomplish all this, but they never actually tried to test themselves. And that's dangerous because like I'm a believer or felt early, you know, like that's a software design thing. Like you want to fail as early as possible so you can fix the core and correct the mistakes. And like, I

Rich: 41:36

definitely think you need that. You need to have that test. To see. All right. I've been doing this for a while now. Now, let me see if I can go to a situation. Well, if you're afraid of it controlling you. And no, that's the, Jay was saying that, right? About all the, Oh, 25 years. I can't go to this place. I can't walk down the street because there's this bar. I always went to it. What are you going to do? Jump in the bar because you've always gone there. I've heard it at AA meetings where people are like, well, you know, I was walking down the street, walking my dog and I was getting. You know,

Katie: 42:11

I think those people need therapy. Like, I'm serious. I think that's happening is they have memories and all this other stuff associated with that that they have not worked through. And so there's avoiding it. And then it's like when it, when they're not working through it yet, it can sneak up on you and if you drink, cause you're thinking about your sub, you have to deal with, obviously that you haven't worked on yet, it's easier said than done. Obviously there's a saying because that's

Rich: 42:33

the other thing with the New Year's resolution. I say to some people, they're like, well, I'm gonna go back to the gym January 1st. I'm like, December 27th. Why not go on the 27th? Is it, is there really, is there a difference At four days? They four days? Is there a difference? We do the 27th and first or five, you know, whatever it is, you know? But, so, so like

Benyi: 42:52

speaking of those New York resolution is, what do you think will be a, a good stance to have? When you see somebody who, uh, people who want to approach or like do the whole, like try generate stuff,

Rich: 43:06

like, you know,

Katie: 43:10

I don't know. I don't even know what he's doing that. Like I know what you're talking about. Yeah.

Benyi: 43:13

And you know, people who are like, Oh, I'm not going to do drink for a month. Like I'm going to do door. Maybe I'm more because I hang out with people in the sobriquetty. So

Rich: 43:22

I think

Katie: 43:22

it's like, I could do that too, man, but one month, you know, but I think

Rich: 43:26

it's a good test for them. Yeah, to do it, but don't you dare hurt yourself to like, uh, because Well, it depends, not don't you dare, but it depends on like what your down has been, what your bottom is, but like, you know, don't say, Oh, okay, all of a sudden I'm like, Mr. Sober or Mrs. Sober because I did her dry January. It's kind of like not eating carbs,

Katie: 43:51

but it's like, I don't

Rich: 43:52

feel like it's the same, like, it's like try it and, and test yourself out. If you're having trouble after a week. Then maybe you should really deep down think, well, maybe I got a problem. Maybe there's like a, like getting off of, I started this new program because I needed something else. So I started 75 hard and it's this program and I'm on day today's day 64. I got to do these five tests every day. I got to do two workouts. One has to be an outdoor workout. I have to drink a gallon of water, no cheat meals. No alcohol would take a picture of myself every day and read 10 pages of a self help book and and so it's intense and I've been doing it and I was like wanted to you know, and the guy says it in there and I that's where I'm feeling that like he maybe he's not a but he had somebody and He's like, Well, if you have a problem with the alcohol, why don't you try it and maybe incorporate it with the 90 I was like reading the book. He had to have somebody involved in it. And so, you know, it's like, I'm trying to, you know, it's like embracing that and then just trying it. Cause that's what I'm saying, you try it and, and just try to like see where you want to go with, you know, No, I think

Benyi: 45:13

those are great to get your foot in the door and if you're curious and if you want to test yourself again and see like, Hey man, if you have a problem after a week, then

Rich: 45:23

Yeah, maybe, maybe, yeah. It's like

Katie: 45:25

tourism or something, right? So

Benyi: 45:28

why the tourism?

Katie: 45:30

This is what I'd be doing right now. I don't know, it's good. It's like the

Rich: 45:33

person that says like, alright, I'm gonna start out, try January, January 2nd. You know what? Dude, you're fabulous. I guess it's like, I don't know,

Katie: 45:41

it's just you have to get to the right spot, like, uh, where it's like, is it worth it? Because things have gotten so bad, like, or, I don't know, it's just, I think it's probably going to give me some interest by now. But

Rich: 45:52

what's the purpose of doing it, like you're saying? Is it like a no carb diet? Yeah, like, okay, I'm not gonna eat carbs, but you know, I'm still gonna eat. Let me

Katie: 46:00

see if this actually makes me feel better as opposed to like, my problems are revolving around these carbs. My problems are revolving around these drugs or alcohol, whatever. Whereas like, maybe this is contributing to it. Especially alcohol because it's so physically like, Bad like out of everything. Like it just, I was not like mad men. I'm like, how do you guys even work? Yo, how do you work? Well, I look at that. I think I'm like, Oh, I feel so tired. Just like looking at you guys, you know, like, but people, you know, whatever works, I guess I can get up and do it.

Rich: 46:28

Yeah. That was, that was crazy. But the thing is also, are you doing dry January and dry everything? Or are you doing California? Sober, or are you doing?

Benyi: 46:39

Yeah, because it could be a combination of other things that like make just stopping alcohol mood, like, you know, like if you stop alcohol, but you increase your intake of, of weed to compensate, like, you, you like, you know, the, the, like the, the purpose of it, like we said, intentions matter. The purpose of it is just, you know, nullified, you know,

Katie: 47:03

I know, but I was doing the California sober. When I stopped, I felt so much less depressed. It was really awful. Like, I realized it's really a depressant. Like, I know everyone says that all the time and it affects everybody differently, but, and I'm glad that they did it. But like, I realized how much. That was bringing me, it's like a negative state. Um, and so I don't know if anybody, there's a lot of people you hear that like, oh, I take weed for depression or whatever, but, um, yeah, it's you have to discover that they're like, you know, dry January, you know, I had to like, kind of explore that, but everybody's it's different and alcohol is depressing to like, it's, I guess. You have to get it out of your system enough before you realize this stuff, you know, but

Rich: 47:44

they're, they're members of AA that they don't even think taking any of those drugs that even though they're non addictive. That curbs your feel. Oh, yeah, like, uh, The Naltrexone and the Vivitrol? They think you're cheating. They're like, because you're introducing a drug to help you get sober. And it's like, but it's not an addictive drug. And it's not a narcotic. It

Katie: 48:11

doesn't give you anything instantly. And it doesn't really. It's just not the same thing. I mean, maybe it is, maybe it's a crutch or something. Sure. But it's still, you can be just as sober. And you can do that, especially with AA, because it's such a spiritual thing. Like, it's not about the type we've hashed this out before. So I get upset when people are like, Oh, it's just cocaine anonymous versus alcohol anonymous. Like the whole premise is that it has nothing to do with actually like what you're consuming. It's like you have these problems in your head that this is interacting

Rich: 48:38

with. So, and I don't think anything's wrong with taking that. You know, it's like all want, you're not cheating, you're not, you know, you're not cheating by the, you know,

Katie: 48:47

it's like you, certain point, it's like, okay, okay, I'm cheating. You know what? Like, I think who caress? I wanna live my life. I want your,

Rich: 48:52

okay, I'm cheating. But you know, that's, I haven't drank for two years. That's

Katie: 48:56

that whole thing. That's exactly what the California sovereign thing, like part, a big part of why I even wanted to stop this is I had no community to go to. I had no recovery community to go to that. Mm-Hmm.'cause I still was like, I need recovery community. And there is no aa. For that, which and I, I was like, I know a, and I know that that is not a, that I'm smoking pot. I just knew that it wasn't because it's an instantly whatever thing, but I still have this really strong thing and they have smart recovery. I wish smart recovery was bigger, but there's something else because I, I just feel like. There has to be something more than just this one size fits all thing with AA and I see so much fighting and this and that and whatever and people say it's a cold and there's a this and it's that but it's like a big thing I have in the back of my head like a pipe dream like I want to maybe one day just create

Rich: 49:40

something. But I think just like that, that would be great. But I think that going back to, like, what this year has shown and, you know, bleep. You know, that was an interesting, you know, whole couple of months there for me. And I learned a lot with that about emotional entanglement and it's not necessarily romantic to be anything. But no, I've like, it's been a, it's been a ride. It's been like, I've been surfing the waves, you know, between, you know, go having a sponsor for six months than not. And then I could have gone a couple of people said, you could have like said, I'm drinking because it's not going to work out because the sponsor didn't work out. But that doesn't mean, you know, it's been up and down, but like, I think I found myself and who I want to surround myself with. Because even if I don't call you all the time, I know on the drop of a dime, if I'm in trouble, I'm gonna, and I can get in touch with him. I can call you. Yeah. So, you know, and I think it's binding the people that you really trust and not, not trust in that sense, but like I know I can like call you without a doubt. Support network. And I think, and I think the support network is a big thing. Like, yeah, I think it's. Recovery is more than just AA. Yeah, it is definitely. Some people say, oh no, you gotta go to a meeting every day and do the big book and uh, yes. That's what I

Katie: 51:20

mean, there's no support group for, I think like everybody on the planet could use a support group. It's like unless you have a drug addiction problem, like there is no way to get a support group. I mean, I even like, I've been trying to get just like group therapy or something just for like mental health concerns. We live in a pretty, you know, we're on Long Island. Like there isn't, there's like two places, you know? So it's like, there is not, there's no like groups for people to go to unless it's always like, it's something terrible. Like, you know, we had a grief, you know, grief groups or whatever like that, but people need each other. You know, people need to have people they can call, like they can just depend on and go to and know that they're there just to know that people

Benyi: 51:57

are there, just to know that people are there, that you can reach out to them when, when you need them. That's, that's definitely important,

Rich: 52:05

you know, because I think more or less the, yeah, that, and then just trying to. Keep the same thing and spreading the word that's what I want to do going forward in 2024. Not that I'm like, so what

Benyi: 52:20

are you looking for

Rich: 52:20

is what I like to, to, you know, just try to be more helpful with people and I'm not starting riches instead of a, a, r, a riches, a, a, Well, that would be very contradicted, but I'm saying, but I'm saying, like, I'm not trying to start something new, but to try to, like, I want to try to help more people. I think I help people by speaking and going in front of people, but, like, that's one thing I do want to do. To, to, and not like, I don't know, and start writing my book and I want to, I know. And I want to say it on this, that I want to start, I'm not saying I'm writing the book this year, but I'm starting it because then it gives me accountability. Oh, you've said it on Benny's podcast. Where the hell's the book? Guess what?

Benyi: 53:14

People are going

Katie: 53:14

to reach out, you know, it's crazy though, to feel like I've been like as an addict, like I. Like accountability, like, it's like, I kind of let people down so many times over and over again, that it's almost like, eh, like, I'm so used to this by now, but I, yeah, I would want to, I need to write, but that's the

Rich: 53:29

20, 24. I want to continue, you know, stay sober. That's that's number one. And just, you know, try to say you hate the term, but try to beat it down faster than myself. No, but just continue the good halfway that everything's going with the boxing, with the broadcast. You know, with work, with everything and just try to, you know, go forward and, and, you know, grow,

Benyi: 53:56

you know? Oh yeah. I mean, no, like, I think I'm in the same vein, like, you know, like trying to help as many people as I can. Um, you know, the podcast, definitely the growth and guys again for being part of like, I don't believe like in the first year we reached like, uh, what, a thousand views, a thousand downloads, that's crazy. Your two guys episode are still being popular, like top five. Yeah. I wonder if you guys are like just playing press

Rich: 54:23

play at home, but I'm bored at night. It's like, let me play mine again. I

Katie: 54:29

didn't want to ever hear like, as I hear myself going, uh,

Benyi: 54:32

but yeah, like, you know, um,

Rich: 54:40

you're right. Trying to help other people, but at the same point, it's tough. Cause you got to be discerning because everybody asks you for their number and we were talking about this a couple of weeks ago. How do you say no to somebody? Like you want to help the person, but you know, giving your number to him might or her might not be the best move for you. Yeah, you could just ghost them. No, no, I

Benyi: 55:06

repeat, no

Rich: 55:08

ghosting, no ghosting. So like I'm saying, you know, like

Katie: 55:11

I mean, this is joking, but seriously, like no, I don't want to give you No, I

Rich: 55:14

mean, I mean, I guess you're honest that way, or you could say, look, I'm giving you my number. You can make me hear it. I'm at this AA meeting every week. I

Katie: 55:23

actually, you know, as you're saying it, I tell people, like, especially in rehab and stuff, I'm like, I am like the worst friend. I can't, I don't stay in touch with people. I know it's true, but I 100 percent am like, I can never stay in touch with people. It's like a stressful thing for me. So I'm like, if I don't get back to you, just please don't take it personally. And that's 100 percent true. Like I, that's just to everybody that I meet, no matter how much I'm excited about you. Like I, it's a stressful thing for me to like, keep up with people. So I just kind of look, I make the expectations like very low to

Rich: 55:50

begin with. Cause we were talking about that the other day. It came up and we were like, how do you say no, you know? Yeah, I mean. And, you know, you got to be honest and you don't want to be deceived, you know, and you want to help and that's where I'm saying, like, I want to help a lot of people, but sometimes. You could be putting your own self in harm's way. Yeah. Yeah. By by friending though. By be by becoming friends with that. So it's a fine line that you got.

Benyi: 56:15

You know, what you just made me think of is like, like I said, I think I said this several times, I trust people, you know, energy. And sometimes you might be wrong in like detecting, discerning, but once you lay. When you know that somebody's intention are not genuine, like, and like, you're like, no, I don't want to give you my number and they say, why? One of me just want to say, man, I, I don't, I don't feel your intention on the best part, but like now doing that might be too early because the person has. Plausible deniability about what the intention are, since it didn't happen. But sometimes you just feel it. Sometimes you're like, yeah,

Rich: 57:01

that, or sometimes you give out the number and then you notice the person a couple of weeks later and you're like, man, I made a mistake.

Benyi: 57:09

I hope that person's not going to call me. That's the feel. I don't want, I don't, I will.

Katie: 57:17

What's that? I'm going to do not call me ever. I'm like, this is like an emergency. I'm not going to have, like, I cannot, I hate talking on the phone. Like it can text me, but like, I, I hate talking on the phone so much. So I tell, I mean, I just, I don't, the 1 thing is

Rich: 57:32

that I guess I base it on that. Even if I, if I give the number out, I don't want the person to have. I'm thinking that like with most people at AA, they're not going to call you because how many times do you fill your name out on the book that's handed out? I've never gotten a phone call from them. Thank God. Hopefully not. You know, that I won't, that all of a sudden my phone's blowing up after this podcast. Oh, we're going to call Rich. Yeah. I met. I'm

Katie: 58:00

like, I'm

Rich: 58:03

working. But it's because at the same point, like I'm thinking. This person might be in a really bad state. You know what I mean? And, and by me telling him or her, No, I'm not giving you my number. Uh huh. Is that gonna drive them?

Katie: 58:20

I guess when I give them that little spiel, but I don't even know. I think it's like, if somebody's texting me something, that's a dire emergency or whatever, then of course I'm gonna, you know, I'll respond. But like, in terms of like, shooting the shit or whatever, Yeah, yeah. I fall behind on that. It has nothing to do with you. But like, I will be there for somebody if they're like, Oh my God, like, something's happening, I will. You know, and I guess you could have people that just do it all the time, but then you just got to be like, what's going on with you? Yeah, it's actually stressful. I'm noticing that a lot, like, my relationships, attachments and stuff like that to people. Like, I have a lot of. Like, uncomfortable, I don't think it's a real word. I always argue people uncomfortability, like, navigating that and, um. I'm trying not to just avoid it. And, um, you know, again, it's another thing I'm like, I'm 37 years old, I still haven't figured this out. Like I had to like, have friends Yeah. How to like, you know, it takes a while. I only have one from like, you know, they met in rehab or that I've had from high school. That's literally, I, I don't know how else to make friends. Like, how do people make friends?

Benyi: 59:16

The difficulty of me personally dealing with this is like, I need, with everything that I'm learning about myself, about self awareness and stuff is not to feel like holier than thou, and it's sometimes hard because even, you know, when I talk about the gym and I see people, The guys, the toxic masculinity, like, you know, like wanting to get the girls and stuff. And they come and talk to me and I'm like, my instinct is like, fuck off. Like, you know, like I, I, I, then after I caught myself, I'm like, Even if he's not there for the same reason as I am, man, that's,

Rich: 59:58

that's bad, but it's weird. And I feel bad because it's almost like women have been programmed that the guy's just like going to try to fuck you. Oh, well, yeah, but I'm saying like, where they're going to do that. And so they're like very, they, they like push you and I'm just being, and I'm like, when I first was with the, you know, in the group and at the gym. It's just because I'm like, nice, I'm not trying to be cocky or anything, but like, hi, how you doing? Whatever. What's up. And some of them were like, I was like, Penny. And he's like, I don't know. I was like, I wasn't coming on to that girl. I was just saying hello. You know, I know you're married and you got two kids. I was just saying hello. But so then my new thing is I just stay back and let them come to me. Yeah. At the same point, you know, because I'm just like, honestly trying to be nice. You know, to know me is to love me, you know, to,

Katie: 1:00:56

I have such a weird experience with that. I have like the opposite thing. Cause it's like, I, I. I just didn't have a normal experience as a woman with this stuff. Like I just was, I was like really not attracted when I was younger. Like I was huge. And so guys literally would talk to me just to be my friend. And I still go into things like assuming that all the time. And I don't know what I think that I'm usually like, that's usually how it is. Like there's a certain way someone approaches you that, you know, compared to when you don't. And I think a lot of women just automatically are like, no. They just automatically

Rich: 1:01:27

assume that's happening. That's what, that's what I'm noticing because just being like friendly, like nobody will say hello anymore. Like at the gym, huh? No, no, but you know, whatever. It is what it is. But like you were saying about that, some of these guys, yeah, some of these at the gym are just, you can't tell. Like I,

Katie: 1:01:44

you can tell. You could tell. Like I could tell the difference with them.

Rich: 1:01:47

Tell the story. Tell the story about the girl in the gym. Oh man.

Benyi: 1:01:51

That was. Oh, amazing. So like, so like I was, I was at the gym, right. I was boxing on, on the, on the bag, which is like, you know, uh, next to, uh, it's a teardrop bag. So it was in an area next to some, um, uh, squatting sessions, right. And there was like a bar lifting bar that was there, you know, no weights on it next to my feet and I was done, you know, I would wrap my hands and I was so that station is next to like a station that has turf and tires for like, um, the people who do like CrossFit exercise that can do, you can run on, you can sprint on. And there are two girls over there that I knew that I was heading toward and saying heart, uh, I'm going to say hi to, and they were like about 20, 30 feet away from me, right? From my, where I was boxing. And there was a guy next to me who was yelling at the girls. Are you guys using this bar, the bar that was next to me? And the girls were so confused. They look at me. I started laughing. I was like. And the girl was like, wait, what? Are you using this bar? But they were not near the bar. Oh,

Rich: 1:03:10

no way near the bar.

Katie: 1:03:11

40 feet away from the bar. It sounds like we're in a trap, like you're gonna come over here. Yeah.

Benyi: 1:03:17

Are you using this bar? And I started laughing out loud. And I was like, oh my god, man. Like, guys are trying hard. And then when I approached them, man, I was saying hi to them because I knew them. And she was like, Then the confused look they gave me, and I was like, we are not near that bar. Oh, like, how are you? I'm like, Hey, you know, this gym, what it is, you know, you've been here a long time. Like, you

Rich: 1:03:44

know what it is. That's the one thing I didn't notice that the people that once they get, then they'd like, Oh no, I know this guy. He's not like one of them or, you know, that, and, and, and that makes it better. You know, where you stand out at the gym that you're. Not like the typical person, you know, cause it's, it is, you know,

Benyi: 1:04:03

and the event can be translated in like, you know, our recovery community and like, you know, the, some of the things I'm so grateful to have the sponsor that I have, because. You have people with different intentions in the community and that's like the thing that it's not my, I don't know, it's not my place to go out there and call them out like, you know, like face to face or like, you know, be like, yo man, like, I don't like you or something, but.

Katie: 1:04:38

Well, it's like people are full of shit. I want to call them out. I know I see you. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Benyi: 1:04:42

I want people to know that, but

Rich: 1:04:44

I'm like, I'm just You hit the nail on the head with what you said. Intentions. Intention is like the biggest thing. Well, I think it's

Katie: 1:04:50

like, I think we're on the same wavelength with that. Like, I really value truth and like honesty. And like, so when I see it now, I see delusions, like, I want to cut them down. Like literally it's like my, my Buddha wisdom and Jushri is a sword to cut down delusions, like whatever. But Um, I'm learning this as part of my aging out, I guess, or maturing or something. It's like, I can't care about this shit anymore. Yeah. Because it's just, it's just, everyone, everyone's bullshit, really. Yeah. I mean, I am too, but I didn't realize it. It's why I work on me being bullshit first and then, you know, but it's hard because I really, because I feel like stuff like that is also like what makes the world terrible. Yeah. So it's like, I have to kind of be like, whatever. I'll let the world burn while I work on my inner peace. And I always have some kind of problem with that, but I'm getting, I'm just old. I'm like, I, I guess I'm going to have to worry about something else. Can worry about the world.

Rich: 1:05:35

Be true to yourself, to thine own self, be true. You know, and that way I think everything will then just flow. But getting back to the whole thing about 2024, I'm looking forward to it where, you know, like, usually when I was drinking, I was like, best year ever.

Katie: 1:05:54

I was in rehab, New Year's Eve ones. It's actually pretty good. I was like, they had so much food. It was the most food I've ever seen. Yeah. Yeah. It was great.

Rich: 1:06:04

But I'm, I'm actually looking forward to see, to continue the, you know, this, this, uh, this, this progress and path. Cause I hate that term journey, whatever your journey is, I can't stand that, come on, you know, you know, so it's like, whatever my pathway, wherever, you know, the road takes me. What about you

Benyi: 1:06:30

Katie? You didn't tell us what you're looking for in 2024.

Katie: 1:06:33

Um, I feel like this year actually was really awful, but in a good, like I leveled up this year. Like this was a really, really challenging year for me. Um, I really. Really learned a lot about myself. And as I'm saying that I've been saying that forever, but I'm like, no, this year I really did. And they learned like all these bad things that have been like deep seated at me that actually don't really have to do with addiction or whatever, you know, I'm getting underneath all the layers. And I am looking forward to, I've always, see, I was good. I didn't say I'm going to start being nice to my family on January, as soon as I realized it, I just want to continue to work on my relationship with my family. Like, I just really hope this time next year, I'd be like. You know, I was kind to my family when they just, like, they deserved it, and I finally, like, got up to the level they deserve. That's all I want.

Rich: 1:07:13

Well, that's awesome because that's been a big thing with the family and the people sit back and I'm like, well, because then, you know, seeing things from that and I'm like, well, I really did a number. Yeah,

Katie: 1:07:27

exactly. I knew that. And I was like, I mean, you knew

Rich: 1:07:30

it, but you didn't know to the, to which

Katie: 1:07:33

extent I realized I was still. Like my attitudes with them hadn't really shifted the way they had with anybody else. And, um, and I have put them through so much and I, I just, it's really, really important to me right now that I really make my family know how much they're valued. And I think

Rich: 1:07:48

that's that point where they say the alcoholic thinking, it's not like thinking like an alcoholic, but, but I guess you're, you're still getting into fights, not physical, but like you're arguing, you're screaming, you're trying to run somebody down and boo. Cuts you off the park. That's on the park. And I think, I think it's like, I think that I'm trying to impre it's been getting better since I haven't drank. Yeah. But I think you still got I still get that. People still piss me. Yeah. There's a lot of

Katie: 1:08:20

anger. I of, I didn't realize, but I wasn't like stress. I thought I wasn't an angry person.'cause I, I'm really not angry at anyone in particular. Oh yeah. But I just have tons of anger. I did not realize that. It's just like.

Rich: 1:08:32

But I didn't realize how much I get to release it with the box. You should box with us. Because honestly, I think, I think I release and you don't really even realize it. But I just think I

Katie: 1:08:46

was thinking about it as a youth being like, yeah, I go there and I just released all this anger, like, like, like last year you said it or something, I was thinking that the other day, I'm like, I really should probably just, I need to exercise.

Benyi: 1:08:56

Yeah. Like, you know, like, uh, releasing,

Katie: 1:08:58

it's a perfect New Year's Eve resolution.

Benyi: 1:09:01

Like, that was like a, a, a guest that I interviewed, like the one that wrote, uh, dry humping, Tony and, uh, I mean, that's the title of the book. That's exercise, right? And she said like she even one of the date, like the guy she married. Uh, one of the dead was like, there's those places in the city where, like, you wear goggles, you're giving, you're giving a sledgehammer and you break everything, like, you bring like, yeah, it's like, it's so cool. Like, I'm like, yes, yes, yes, I want to do

Rich: 1:09:31

that. It's like the Greek wedding, breaking the plates. Yeah, the plates, yeah, yeah,

Katie: 1:09:36

except the whole room.

Benyi: 1:09:39

Like you giving, like, and you can break like TVs, you can break anything. Like, you know, they're like appliances that, like,

Katie: 1:09:45

I apparently, I, I hate, I'm always like such a Debbie downer with this.'cause I, I used to do the, uh, copywriting for like a, a, the kind of waste removal, whatever company. Mm-Hmm. And I had to come up with articles and I, you know, I find things and apparently those kind of rooms. Cause a lot of toxins to get in the air when you're breaking things and the cathode rays and all these other things. So it's like the cobalt is in the air or something. Yeah. So they're, they're thinking about like.

Rich: 1:10:10

That's probably why you gotta put your goggles and mask. Yeah. Yeah. You gotta bring everything. Go to, yeah. Don't be downer. Yes. Oh my God. All

Benyi: 1:10:18

right guys. Thank you very much for being a guest and all of this like 2023. Recap. Recap.

Katie: 1:10:26

That's good. I like it. Recap.

Rich: 1:10:29

Recap.

Benyi: 1:10:30

That was your one recap, 2023 recap and, uh, 2024 hopes and, uh, all guys, I will see you next week. Bye. Yes, new Year. See you guys. Happy

Rich: 1:10:40

New year.